Concentration born of natural luminosity

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bartolomay
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Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by bartolomay »

I remember this phrase - "Concentration born of natural luminosity", but I don't remember where I read it or what it is referring to. Does anyone knows what it is and how it cultivate?
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Grigoris
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Grigoris »

bartolomay wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:16 pm I remember this phrase - "Concentration born of natural luminosity", but I don't remember where I read it or what it is referring to. Does anyone knows what it is and how it cultivate?
That is pretty easy actually:

1. Find a Guru.
2. Prostrate at their lotus feet and make them offerings while begging them to show you what it is.
3. Do everything they tell you.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
fckw
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by fckw »

bartolomay wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:16 pm I remember this phrase - "Concentration born of natural luminosity", but I don't remember where I read it or what it is referring to. Does anyone knows what it is and how it cultivate?
Concentration can have different kinds of mind as its basis, e.g. gross mind, subtle mind etc.
AJP
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by AJP »

bartolomay wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:16 pm I remember this phrase - "Concentration born of natural luminosity", but I don't remember where I read it or what it is referring to. Does anyone knows what it is and how it cultivate?
You’d need a Mahamudra Empowerment keep Samayas, HYT, Bodhisattva and Refuge Vows some all of the 5 Precepts.

Then seek out 4 Yogas instruction.

There’s also Sutra Mahamudra which I don’t know anything about.

It’s a very kind teaching but is advanced so depends on you what you can do!
Danny
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Danny »

Are you sure “concentration” is the right word?
Sorry to be semantic but it’s connotation implies effort.
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Gabriel the Toad
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Gabriel the Toad »

It just means that when the mind is free from thoughts, free from concepts there is a natural, effortless "concentration" that is non-doing, non-focused. You just rest in that non-conceptual state and that's it.

>>lotus feet
Sheesh, spare us all. Please...
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Lingpupa »

Danny wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:28 am Are you sure “concentration” is the right word?
Sorry to be semantic but it’s connotation implies effort.
Nothing wrong with "semantic" - it just means you are concerned about the meaning of words. Perhaps you are worried about being "pedantic" (though personally I don't think you are).
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/
fckw
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by fckw »

Gabriel the Toad wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:34 am It just means that when the mind is free from thoughts, free from concepts there is a natural, effortless "concentration" that is non-doing, non-focused. You just rest in that non-conceptual state and that's it.

>>lotus feet
Sheesh, spare us all. Please...
Actually, from what I've learned and also from practical meditation experience, this is not entirely correct. The state you are pointing to and the state the questioner is - in my understanding - inquiring about are not same. The latter has the former necessarily as its basis, but the opposite is not true.
Crazywisdom
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Crazywisdom »

Luminosity is the deepest word of all. A life spent in uncovering its meaning will not end but be an immortal legacy.
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Gabriel the Toad
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Gabriel the Toad »

fckw wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:46 pm
Gabriel the Toad wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:34 am It just means that when the mind is free from thoughts, free from concepts there is a natural, effortless "concentration" that is non-doing, non-focused. You just rest in that non-conceptual state and that's it.

>>lotus feet
Sheesh, spare us all. Please...
Actually, from what I've learned and also from practical meditation experience, this is not entirely correct. The state you are pointing to and the state the questioner is - in my understanding - inquiring about are not same. The latter has the former necessarily as its basis, but the opposite is not true.
My answer is also from personal experience but it certainly does not mean I have not misunderstood either the OP's question or my own experience. :D Please have another go at explaining your point to me fckw. Use small words, I'm just a simple toad...
fckw
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by fckw »

Gabriel the Toad wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:49 pm My answer is also from personal experience but it certainly does not mean I have not misunderstood either the OP's question or my own experience. :D Please have another go at explaining your point to me fckw. Use small words, I'm just a simple toad...
First, from the very little info and description I received here, it can very well be that I misinterpret you or also the initial question. Second, what you were describing sounds very much like the yoga of non-meditation to me, as the emphasis is on the "effortless meditation", which is a typical indicator of that stage. In contrast, the technical term used initially - "concentration born of natural luminosity" - is, according to the very term, a type of concentration that has natural luminosity as its basis. The fascinating thing about such concentration is that it does not cloud over awareness itself but is seen as its natural expression. If you try this at the level of yoga of non-meditation you'd actually fall back to earlier stages of meditation.
Having that said I'd like not to elaborate any further.
Danny
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Danny »

fckw wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:04 am
Gabriel the Toad wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:49 pm My answer is also from personal experience but it certainly does not mean I have not misunderstood either the OP's question or my own experience. :D Please have another go at explaining your point to me fckw. Use small words, I'm just a simple toad...
First, from the very little info and description I received here, it can very well be that I misinterpret you or also the initial question. Second, what you were describing sounds very much like the yoga of non-meditation to me, as the emphasis is on the "effortless meditation", which is a typical indicator of that stage. In contrast, the technical term used initially - "concentration born of natural luminosity" - is, according to the very term, a type of concentration that has natural luminosity as its basis. The fascinating thing about such concentration is that it does not cloud over awareness itself but is seen as its natural expression. If you try this at the level of yoga of non-meditation you'd actually fall back to earlier stages of meditation.
Having that said I'd like not to elaborate any further.
So knowing would be better than concentration.
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Matt J
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Matt J »

I know some pretty great teachers, but even they wouldn't dispense Mahamudra meditation advice to anonymous strangers online. Diagnosing some one via internet posts strikes me as a bit... unwise.
fckw wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:04 am Having that said I'd like not to elaborate any further.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
fckw
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by fckw »

Matt J wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:37 am I know some pretty great teachers, but even they wouldn't dispense Mahamudra meditation advice to anonymous strangers online. Diagnosing some one via internet posts strikes me as a bit... unwise.
fckw wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:04 am Having that said I'd like not to elaborate any further.
I did not conceive of that someone would take this as advice of any kind. But I understand if someone feels that this better be removed. If so, feel free to report to any administrator, I'd have no bad feelings.
Danny
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Re: Concentration born of natural luminosity

Post by Danny »

fckw wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:57 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:37 am I know some pretty great teachers, but even they wouldn't dispense Mahamudra meditation advice to anonymous strangers online. Diagnosing some one via internet posts strikes me as a bit... unwise.
fckw wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:04 am Having that said I'd like not to elaborate any further.
I did not conceive of that someone would take this as advice of any kind. But I understand if someone feels that this better be removed. If so, feel free to report to any administrator, I'd have no bad feelings.
For what it’s worth, I enjoy your posts. Mahamudra cannot be transmitted through words, only through practice.
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