What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Don’t zombies have awareness?
If they did, they would not be dead people in various stages of decomposition.
They have appetite. :tongue:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Malcolm »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:47 pm
Don’t zombies have awareness?
If they did, they would not be dead people in various stages of decomposition.
They have appetite. :tongue:
So do Venus Flytraps.
User avatar
Tlalok
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:29 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Tlalok »

In 28 Days Later the Zombies are living humans infected with rabies, they are definitely sentient beings in that case.

In the Last of Us the Zombies are living humans taken whose behaviour is controlled by a strain of Cordyceps fungus, they are probably also sentient beings.

The George A. Romero Zombies are actual reanimated corpses, which are more complicated.

The question of "does a philosophical zombie have buddha nature" is an interesting challenge though.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Malcolm »

Tlalok wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:48 pm In 28 Days Later the Zombies are living humans infected with rabies, they are definitely sentient beings in that case.
The name of the virus in 28 days later is "Rage", not rabies. In other news:
"Danny Boyle has revealed he's working on a follow-up to 28 Days Later.

The director told The Independent that a third film is in the works with Ex Machina filmmaker Alex Garland, who wrote the 2002 original.

"Alex Garland and I have a wonderful idea for the third part," he said. "It's properly good."

He continued: "The original film led to a bit of a resurgence in the zombie drama and it doesn't reference any of that. It doesn't feel stale at all. He's concentrating on directing his own work at the moment, so it's stood in abeyance really, but it's a you-never-know."

Sequel 28 Weeks Later, directed by Juan Carlos Fresnadillo, was released in 2007.
The question of "does a philosophical zombie have buddha nature" is an interesting challenge though.
Image
Natan
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:34 pm
Tlalok wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:48 pm In 28 Days Later the Zombies are living humans infected with rabies, they are definitely sentient beings in that case.
The name of the virus in 28 days later is "Rage", not rabies. In other news:
"Danny Boyle has revealed he's working on a follow-up to 28 Days Later.

The director told The Independent that a third film is in the works with Ex Machina filmmaker Alex Garland, who wrote the 2002 original.

"Alex Garland and I have a wonderful idea for the third part," he said. "It's properly good."

He continued: "The original film led to a bit of a resurgence in the zombie drama and it doesn't reference any of that. It doesn't feel stale at all. He's concentrating on directing his own work at the moment, so it's stood in abeyance really, but it's a you-never-know."

Sequel 28 Weeks Later, directed by Juan Carlos Fresnadillo, was released in 2007.
The question of "does a philosophical zombie have buddha nature" is an interesting challenge though.
Image
It's a moot point bc zombies are fictional. The tantric practice of transferring conscious into a corpse is a conscious.
User avatar
Hazel
Former staff member
Posts: 2090
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:15 pm
Location: she/her

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Hazel »

If it ends up worth splitting the thread, it will certainly be the strangest split I've done in my short time as a moderator.....

Potential subject lines include:

* The Great Zombie Debate
* An Actual Zombie Thread
* Braaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiins!!
* On The Hunger of Brains and Whether This Constitutes Awareness and if So Whether thi


Edit:

I don't meant to dissuade discussion about zombies or anything else. I'm just making a joke.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
zerwe
Posts: 778
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:25 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by zerwe »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:32 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:00 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:26 pm

This was a note to the mods that this was a Zombie thread.

Zombies, not being alive, have no buddhanature, no more than a rock has buddhanature.
Don’t zombies have awareness?
If they did, they would not be dead people in various stages of decomposition.
What about Vetalis? And, Vajravetali?

Shaun :namaste:
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Malcolm »

zerwe wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:32 pm
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:00 pm Don’t zombies have awareness?
If they did, they would not be dead people in various stages of decomposition.
What about Vetalis? And, Vajravetali?

Shaun :namaste:
Vetalas are a kind of spirit that reanimates a corpse. It's pretty hard to kill spirits.
PeterC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by PeterC »

Crazywisdom wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:10 pm It's a moot point bc zombies are fictional.
OK I'll bite. (No pun intended.) There are examples in nature of sentient beings being taken over by fungi. Read the link below with caution because it is pretty disgusting.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/anim ... -over-ants

Now - does the zombie ant still have Buddhanature?
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:36 am
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:10 pm It's a moot point bc zombies are fictional.
OK I'll bite. (No pun intended.) There are examples in nature of sentient beings being taken over by fungi. Read the link below with caution because it is pretty disgusting.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/anim ... -over-ants

Now - does the zombie ant still have Buddhanature?
One word: Matango

Image
Natan
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Natan »

PeterC wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:36 am
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:10 pm It's a moot point bc zombies are fictional.
OK I'll bite. (No pun intended.) There are examples in nature of sentient beings being taken over by fungi. Read the link below with caution because it is pretty disgusting.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/anim ... -over-ants

Now - does the zombie ant still have Buddhanature?
Yes. But it basically has an incurable disease that destroyed it's cognitive function, like severe dementia.
dharmafootsteps
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:57 am

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by dharmafootsteps »

Pretty sure there’s some zombie action in Blazing Splendor if I remember correctly.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by heart »

dharmafootsteps wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:05 pm Pretty sure there’s some zombie action in Blazing Splendor if I remember correctly.
Yes, from the camp of Shakya Sri.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
[email protected]
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:28 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by [email protected] »

Regarding seeing the Lama as pure . For those thinking of getting involved or already committed to that path I would recommend 'Fallout, recovering from abuse in Tibetan Buddhism' by Tahlia Newland. The dharma has only recently come to the West but scandals keep being revealed every few years with similar ingredients involved.
Brunelleschi
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by Brunelleschi »

[email protected] wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:18 pm Regarding seeing the Lama as pure . For those thinking of getting involved or already committed to that path I would recommend 'Fallout, recovering from abuse in Tibetan Buddhism' by Tahlia Newland. The dharma has only recently come to the West but scandals keep being revealed every few years with similar ingredients involved.
What? If you have samaya with a teacher you're supposed to regard them as pure. However, this is related to not fixating on minor faults not turning a blind eye to abuse. This is of course why it is adviced to inspect the teacher beforehand.

Anyway, there's already numerous threads on this subjects, e.g., the thread on Chogyam Trungpa.

Edit: My point is that Guru Yoga is an indispensable part of Vajrayana.
[email protected]
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:28 pm

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by [email protected] »

Unfortunately turning a blind eye to actual abuse has happened and looks set to continue. Although it is advised to inspect the teacher beforehand many people will take initiations and have 'samaya' with unscrupulous teachers. This is also enabled by those students 'in the know' keeping silent about what has been going on behind closed doors. This problem is compounded by 'teachers' claiming their students have samaya with them when in fact there was no samaya to break as the 'teacher' was not even qualified and other Rinpoches wading in on the side of the abusers.

Guru Yoga is a part of Vajrayana but has sadly been misused. I recommended Thalia Newland's book as it could at least help us understand how cult like thinking and abuse can develop and also not be dismissive of those students who have been damaged.
User avatar
nyonchung
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:33 pm
Location: France

Re: What if seeing a lama as pure was less about lifting a lama up and more about bringing purity

Post by nyonchung »

Things are also made difficult by ambitious students, dharma tourists of all kinds, various weirdos you meet in small groups with special interests ... people pretending to be studying Dharma but having an hidden agenda , the list is long.
So if some students been damaged, a few students also damaged things around, this is why I left Dharma centers long ago.
I knew some young monks/lamas that had been seriously damaged too by Western "students" and "benefactors".
Clash of cultures.
As for France, I know of at least one lama accused of horrors, cleared in court - he was kind enough to let the accusers free (he could have sue them to financial less), and I know also of two cases of sexual abuse that duly ended in court. If anything serious, the police / justice system does its job (and small religious groups are under close watch, being considered as potential cults, something the US certainly doesen't have)

Not to mention a stream of anti-Asian racism in some cases (as for France, definitely)
And certainly, anti-buddhist groups of various hues at work (this is not paranoïa - but a geopolitical observation + direct experience)
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
Locked

Return to “Mahamudra”