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Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 pm
by Void
Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste, if you fail to have some degree of clairvoyance
and receive signs from the dakinis, you must be tainted by damaged samayas.
Clarifying the Natural State - Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

What are possible so-called "signs from the dakinis", which seem to indicate significant training progress in Mahamudra (and most likely also in Dzogchen)?
Are there quotes in Mahamudra or Dzogchen literature which describe those?

Thanks! :smile:

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:12 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 pm
Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste, if you fail to have some degree of clairvoyance
and receive signs from the dakinis, you must be tainted by damaged samayas.
Clarifying the Natural State - Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

What are possible so-called "signs from the dakinis", which seem to indicate significant training progress in Mahamudra (and most likely also in Dzogchen)?
Are there quotes in Mahamudra or Dzogchen literature which describe those?

Thanks! :smile:
I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of one taste.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:17 pm
by Void
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:12 pm I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of one taste.
He was talking about "Greater One Taste" and not about "One Taste".

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:17 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:12 pm I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of one taste.
He was talking about "Greater One Taste" and not about "One Taste".
I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of greater one taste.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm
by Void
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of greater one taste.
You didn't understand the quote correctly. It says "Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste",
in other words: You can attain the realization of greater one taste but you not necessarily will receive "signs from the dakinis" at that level too.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm
by PSM
Better keep samayas too - everything comes from keeping them.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of greater one taste.
You didn't understand the quote correctly. It says "Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste",
in other words: You can attain the realization of greater one taste but you will not necessarily will receive "signs from the dakinis" at that level too.
Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 pm
by Void
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
That is not an answer to my question.
I asked for possible examples of signs of dakinis (described in literature).
The quote already described when and how you are supposed to receive signs of the dakinis, therefore it doesn't make sense to repeat more or less correctly the content of the quote.
One could suspect patronizing or other egocentric reasons as the intention behind such behavior.
The ultimate level of such behavior would be to answer every op in any thread in this forum with "Ask your teacher!" or "You will know when you are at that level!" and then close the thread.
This is obviously a forum created for students asking students and a behavior according to that intention is appropriate.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:58 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
That is not an answer to my question.
I asked for possible examples of signs of dakinis (described in literature).
The quote already described when and how you are supposed to receive signs of the dakinis, therefore it doesn't make sense to repeat more or less correctly the content of the quote.
One could suspect patronizing or other egocentric reasons as the intention behind such behavior.
The ultimate level of such behavior would be to answer every possible thread in this forum with "Ask your teacher!" and then close the thread.
This is a forum created for students asking students and a behavior according to that intention is appropriate.
It appears that you know the source for the answers already.
You will find the answers you seek by asking your teacher and consulting the specific instruction manuals for which you have received the teachings and transmissions.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:00 pm
by Norwegian
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
That is not an answer to my question.
I asked for possible examples of signs of dakinis (described in literature).
The quote already described when and how you are supposed to receive signs of the dakinis, therefore it doesn't make sense to repeat more or less correctly the content of the quote.
One could suspect patronizing or other egocentric reasons as the intention behind such behavior.
The ultimate level of such behavior would be to answer every op in any thread in this forum with "Ask your teacher!" or "You will know when you are at that level!" and then close the thread.
This is a forum created for students asking students and a behavior according to that intention is appropriate.
Not everything is necessarily proper to discuss in public. Indeed, you should ask your teacher from whom you received Mahamudra instead.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:02 pm
by Pero
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm I suppose you will know when you attain the realization of greater one taste.
You didn't understand the quote correctly. It says "Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste",
in other words: You can attain the realization of greater one taste but you will not necessarily will receive "signs from the dakinis" at that level too.
Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
Or end up like Virupa who thought he was getting nowhere because he didn't know the signs and throw your mala in the toilet and give up practice. :lol:

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:04 pm
by Josef
Pero wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:02 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm

You didn't understand the quote correctly. It says "Even though you have attained the realization of greater One Taste",
in other words: You can attain the realization of greater one taste but you will not necessarily will receive "signs from the dakinis" at that level too.
Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
Or end up like Virupa who thought he was getting nowhere because he didn't know the signs and throw your mala in the toilet and give up practice. :lol:
He figured it out :toilet:

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm
by PSM
Norwegian wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:00 pm
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 pm Oh, I understood the quote. It's not too difficult to follow.
Once you attain the realization of greater one taste and purify your tainted samaya, I suppose you will know.
That is not an answer to my question.
I asked for possible examples of signs of dakinis (described in literature).
The quote already described when and how you are supposed to receive signs of the dakinis, therefore it doesn't make sense to repeat more or less correctly the content of the quote.
One could suspect patronizing or other egocentric reasons as the intention behind such behavior.
The ultimate level of such behavior would be to answer every op in any thread in this forum with "Ask your teacher!" or "You will know when you are at that level!" and then close the thread.
This is a forum created for students asking students and a behavior according to that intention is appropriate.
Not everything is necessarily proper to discuss in public. Indeed, you should ask your teacher from whom you received Mahamudra instead.
:good: Worth noting that keeping secret things secret is a samaya vow.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:09 pm
by Void
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:58 pm You will find the answers you seek by asking your teacher and consulting the specific instruction manuals for which you have received the teachings and transmissions.
That would be an even better standard patronizing answer to close any thread immedeately after the original post than the ones I suggested!
Obviously my assessment of your intention to post in this thread was correctly.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:11 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:09 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:58 pm You will find the answers you seek by asking your teacher and consulting the specific instruction manuals for which you have received the teachings and transmissions.
That would be an even better standard patronizing answer to close any thread immedeately after the original post than the ones I suggested!
Obviously my assessment of your intention to post in this thread was correctly.
You have no idea.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:12 pm
by Void
PSM wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm :good: Worth noting that keeping secret things secret is a samaya vow.
I wasn't asking for anyone to break vows.
There are surely descriptions of "signs of the dakinis" in non-restricted mahamudra literature.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:15 pm
by Josef
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:12 pm
PSM wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm :good: Worth noting that keeping secret things secret is a samaya vow.
I wasn't asking for anyone to break vows.
There are surely descriptions of "signs of the dakinis" in non-restricted mahamudra literature.
That's not really how it works.
You receive the teachings, the teacher tells you about the signs, if it is a specific practice manual or tantra that is being taught from, those signs may or may not be elaborated upon.

These things tend to be quite guarded.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
by Norwegian
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:12 pm
PSM wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm :good: Worth noting that keeping secret things secret is a samaya vow.
I wasn't asking for anyone to break vows.
There are surely descriptions of "signs of the dakinis" in non-restricted mahamudra literature.
These things are the domain of Vajrayana. As such, they are guarded by samaya. And things guarded by samaya shouldn't be discussed in public.

Either you have samaya, or you don't. If you have it, you should try to take care of it, because not doing so would be unfortunate.

If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.

Most people who have samaya understands that there are a number of things which cannot be discussed in public and won't do so.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:18 pm
by Josef
Norwegian wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm
Void wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:12 pm
PSM wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:07 pm :good: Worth noting that keeping secret things secret is a samaya vow.
I wasn't asking for anyone to break vows.
There are surely descriptions of "signs of the dakinis" in non-restricted mahamudra literature.
These things are the domain of Vajrayana. As such, they are guarded by samaya. And things guarded by samaya shouldn't be discussed in public.

Either you have samaya, or you don't. If you have it, you should try to take care of it, because not doing so would be unfortunate.

If you don't have samaya, in other words, if you haven't received empowerment from a qualified teacher, and if you haven't received Mahamudra from a qualified teacher, then none of this is your business, actually.

Most people who have samaya understands that there are a number of things which cannot be discussed in public and won't do so.
That sums it up.

Re: Signs from the Dakinis?

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:22 pm
by PSM
Norwegian wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm These things are the domain of Vajrayana. As such, they are guarded by samaya.
And, ironically, dakinis.