Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Subcontrary
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Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Subcontrary »

I am very interested in the Madhyamaka school and I am here to seek clarity regarding many of its complicated doctrines!
Malcolm
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm I am very interested in the Madhyamaka school and I am here to seek clarity regarding many of its complicated doctrines!
Madhyamaka is not complicated. It exists to dismantle the complications of other systems, that's why it seems complex. But it isn't really.
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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That is encouraging, Malcolm!

I should say more that I am often confounded by the doctrines of Madhyamaka. I'm even now writing a post regarding the Tattvasangraha of Santaraksita which perhaps will demonstrate my confusion!
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Welcome
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Malcolm
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:51 pm That is encouraging, Malcolm!

I should say more that I am often confounded by the doctrines of Madhyamaka. I'm even now writing a post regarding the Tattvasangraha of Santaraksita which perhaps will demonstrate my confusion!
Don’t start with that book.
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm I am very interested in the Madhyamaka school and I am here to seek clarity regarding many of its complicated doctrines!
I was taught by one my teachers to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life. A lot of Tibetan teachers teach these at basic Dharma talks. That makes it much easier. It is not really complicated at all, as Malcolm says. It also means it has the exact opposite purpose of what people assume - that it is just supposed to be some scholarly teaching, with no practical value.

I do struggle to read Nagarjuna sometimes, but that's just my education level and conditioning, it is not hard to understand what he is talking about if you apply it.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Welcome! :heart:
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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Subcontrary
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Subcontrary »

Malcolm wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:13 pm
Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:51 pm That is encouraging, Malcolm!

I should say more that I am often confounded by the doctrines of Madhyamaka. I'm even now writing a post regarding the Tattvasangraha of Santaraksita which perhaps will demonstrate my confusion!
Don’t start with that book.
It's too late! I read Jha's entire translation a few years ago and am returning to it again, at least sections of it, as a result of a discussion about karma that I had with my sister recently. Anyway, the question remains, do you have suggestions for more "beginnery" material about Madhyamaka?
Subcontrary
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:22 pm
Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm I am very interested in the Madhyamaka school and I am here to seek clarity regarding many of its complicated doctrines!
I was taught by one my teachers to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life. A lot of Tibetan teachers teach these at basic Dharma talks. That makes it much easier. It is not really complicated at all, as Malcolm says. It also means it has the exact opposite purpose of what people assume - that it is just supposed to be some scholarly teaching, with no practical value.

I do struggle to read Nagarjuna sometimes, but that's just my education level and conditioning, it is not hard to understand what he is talking about if you apply it.
That's good advice! I do try to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life, insofar as I understand it. I'm very happy to hear that it's not actually complicated; hopefully one day I'll experience what you mean!

I'm told that Nagarjuna founded Madhyamaka thought in his book Mūlamadhyamakakārikā, but I have not found any English translations! Do you know of any?

EDIT: NVM two seconds of googling yielded https://terebess.hu/english/Nagarjuna.pdf and https://www.aaari.info/notes/03-06-06Tam2.pdf
Last edited by Subcontrary on Mon May 24, 2021 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Welcome to DW!

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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

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Hi :smile:

I found this to be quite interesting :)

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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Malcolm »

Subcontrary wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:00 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:22 pm
Subcontrary wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm I am very interested in the Madhyamaka school and I am here to seek clarity regarding many of its complicated doctrines!
I was taught by one my teachers to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life. A lot of Tibetan teachers teach these at basic Dharma talks. That makes it much easier. It is not really complicated at all, as Malcolm says. It also means it has the exact opposite purpose of what people assume - that it is just supposed to be some scholarly teaching, with no practical value.

I do struggle to read Nagarjuna sometimes, but that's just my education level and conditioning, it is not hard to understand what he is talking about if you apply it.
That's good advice! I do try to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life, insofar as I understand it. I'm very happy to hear that it's not actually complicated; hopefully one day I'll experience what you mean!

I'm told that Nagarjuna founded Madhyamaka thought in his book Mūlamadhyamakakārikā, but I have not found any English translations! Do you know of any?

EDIT: NVM two seconds of googling yielded https://terebess.hu/english/Nagarjuna.pdf and https://www.aaari.info/notes/03-06-06Tam2.pdf
It’s best if you begin with Aryadevas 400 verses or Candrakirti Madhyamaka avatara.
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Astus »

A course in Madhyamaka with Thomas Doctor has started this month: https://dharmasun.org/courses/middleway/
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Malcolm
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Malcolm »

Astus wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:48 pm A course in Madhyamaka with Thomas Doctor has started this month: https://dharmasun.org/courses/middleway/
Indeed, can't speak to the quality of the course, I am sure it is fine, but the message board is a nightmare of proliferation, abandon hope all ye...
Subcontrary
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by Subcontrary »

Astus wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:48 pm A course in Madhyamaka with Thomas Doctor has started this month: https://dharmasun.org/courses/middleway/
Wow, what luck and good timing! Thank you so much!
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Re: Hello From An Amateur Madhyamaka Scholar!

Post by zerwe »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:49 pm
Subcontrary wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 3:00 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 10:22 pm

I was taught by one my teachers to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life. A lot of Tibetan teachers teach these at basic Dharma talks. That makes it much easier. It is not really complicated at all, as Malcolm says. It also means it has the exact opposite purpose of what people assume - that it is just supposed to be some scholarly teaching, with no practical value.

I do struggle to read Nagarjuna sometimes, but that's just my education level and conditioning, it is not hard to understand what he is talking about if you apply it.
That's good advice! I do try to engage in Madhyamaka analysis in daily life, insofar as I understand it. I'm very happy to hear that it's not actually complicated; hopefully one day I'll experience what you mean!

I'm told that Nagarjuna founded Madhyamaka thought in his book Mūlamadhyamakakārikā, but I have not found any English translations! Do you know of any?

EDIT: NVM two seconds of googling yielded https://terebess.hu/english/Nagarjuna.pdf and https://www.aaari.info/notes/03-06-06Tam2.pdf
It’s best if you begin with Aryadevas 400 verses or Candrakirti Madhyamaka avatara.
I have to agree on this approach. With my teacher's guidance, and some steering by my own questioning, I started with Candrakirti's Wisdom chapter and worked toward identifying the 4 (sometimes 5) Madhyamaka reasonings in the text--much of it is actually dominated by the 'diamond splinters.' This was followed by a study of tenets to help understand some of the finer points. I think there probably are a variety ways to approach it, but this is where my own organic mode of inquiry and my teacher led me. I will probably continue to work my way backward to a honest examination of Nagarjuna's root text.

Shaun :namaste:
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