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by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:48 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

Malcolm wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:47 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:30 pm
You have this penchant for conditioning folks toward the Dzogchen tantras way.
The Dzogchen tantras teach a vehicle independent of the nine yānas. YMMV.
Then why is it called the 9th? It is Ati, right?
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:56 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

Dzogchen is a path, paths have methods. ChNN also stated this often. What ChNN said is that Dzogchen is not a technique. Technique, path... The path is tregcho/togal. Or yangti. These are paths to realize Dzogchen You left out rushen. This is indispensable on the path of Dzogchen. It enhances trekc...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:30 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

The creation stage deity is a conceptual construct, an antidote to other concepts. That's all. From a Dzogchen perspective, it is an deviation. This is wrong. The deities are Dzogchen. So the state of dzogchen has faces and hands? Really? So do you. Did you forget the part about culmination of rigp...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:29 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

No, in mahayoga sadhanas, it is to be taken seriously as a symbolic method (but still a conceptual fabrication), just like it is in anuyoga. But this does not apply to Dzogchen at all. The path is different, so the method is different. Dzogchen is not a method. ChNN said that often. This is an impo...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:35 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

It is extremely clear cut in the tantras and commentaries, as well as in the teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.YMMV. :-) Yes, I agree, but I don't want to limit myself like that. /magnus Yes, well, there is also the indirect approach to atiyoga through the creation and completion stage. It is not a...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:26 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

Malcolm: whether there’s an invitation or not, the jnanasattva is a fiction and not to be taken seriously. No, in mahayoga sadhanas, it is to be taken seriously as a symbolic method (but still a conceptual fabrication), just like it is in anuyoga. But this does not apply to Dzogchen at all. The pat...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:21 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

The same deity might have a long sadhana with an invitation of the jnanasattvas and very short sadhanas without. My point being that with or without invitation, the visualized deity is never dismissed as simply one’s own imagination/samayasattva. If there’s no invitation the presence of jnanasattva...
by Crazywisdom
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:53 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

Malcolm wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:13 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:22 am
Nyingthig has deity yoga too.
Nyinthig cycles have anuyoga practices appended to them, it is true. But they are anuyoga practices of the three roots, where atiyoga is taken as the completion stage.
I know. Guhyagarbha has this too
by Crazywisdom
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:22 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

I think there may be some confusion about the "summoning" of the jnanasattvas. Even in his book on Ngondro, the previous Kalu R. made the point that if one had total faith and confidence that the visualized image above one's head was the actual deity, then the lights going out and summoning part of...
by Crazywisdom
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:19 am
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

I think there may be some confusion about the "summoning" of the jnanasattvas. Even in his book on Ngondro, the previous Kalu R. made the point that if one had total faith and confidence that the visualized image above one's head was the actual deity, then the lights going out and summoning part of...
by Crazywisdom
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:14 am
Forum: Language
Topic: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer
Replies: 9
Views: 284

Re: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer

There is nothing wrong with English, it's something I would like to learn how to recite in Tibetan/Sanskrit. Cool I do think it is worth while. My own teacher who is usually all about English English English (because you understand what you are reciting then!) recommends reciting the 7 Line Prayer ...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:41 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

I do not think he is mistaken about the higher tantras—at least as they are taught here. He’s not sloppy that way. However differences between specific lineages do occur, so there is that. “Oh Vajrapāṇi, listen! The vehicle of the great āgamas of Anuyoga maintains that two aspects, the dhātu and pr...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:47 pm
Forum: Language
Topic: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer
Replies: 9
Views: 284

Re: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer

Mnbair wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:09 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:03 pm What's wrong with English?

There was a poetic translation in White Lotus

It's perfect. That's the one I say.
There is nothing wrong with English, it's something I would like to learn how to recite in Tibetan/Sanskrit.
Cool
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:22 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

This function is generally abandoned at the level of anuyoga, and especially in ati yoga. I ran this by someone who is fluent in Tibetan and has done the traditional Nyingma 3 year retreat. He said that as long as a dirty was involved the jnanasattva is invited at the beginning of the sadhana. It i...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:20 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

This function is generally abandoned at the level of anuyoga, and especially in ati yoga. I ran this by someone who is fluent in Tibetan and has done the traditional Nyingma 3 year retreat. He said that as long as a dirty was involved the jnanasattva is invited at the beginning of the sadhana. It i...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:09 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

My basic point was about looking at the issue of betting one’s practice regarding jnanasattvas with a cost/benefit analysis: What does one gain by being dismissive of their nature if they are imaginary? Or what if they are valid? And what do you lose in both cases? What does one gain by taking thei...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:06 pm
Forum: Dzogchen
Topic: Equivalent to thogal
Replies: 144
Views: 4805

Re: Equivalent to thogal

I think you may not have a very firm grasp on why we practice the two stages. And I think your focusing on the second stage misinforms your understanding of the role of the first stage. But that’s just my perspective based on my present karmic development. Well, this is a thread in the dzogchen for...
by Crazywisdom
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:03 pm
Forum: Language
Topic: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer
Replies: 9
Views: 284

Re: Phonetics of Seven Line prayer

What's wrong with English?

There was a poetic translation in White Lotus

It's perfect. That's the one I say.
by Crazywisdom
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:23 pm
Forum: Lounge
Topic: Is Buddhism a methodological solipsism?
Replies: 70
Views: 1148

Re: Is Buddhism a methodological solipsism?

Methodological solipsism is an agnostic variant of solipsism. It exists in opposition to the strict epistemological requirements for "knowledge" (e.g. the requirement that knowledge must be certain). It still entertains the points that any induction is fallible. Methodological solipsism sometimes g...
by Crazywisdom
Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:00 pm
Forum: Lounge
Topic: Genghis Khan and India?
Replies: 10
Views: 224

Re: Genghis Khan and India?

Mughals were not led by GK. This comment was about GK's decision only. This is what PC was referring to: Babur and Humayun (1526–1556) Main articles: Babur and Humayun Babur, the founder of the Mughal Empire, and his warriors visiting a Hindu temple in the Indian subcontinent. The Mughal Empire was...

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