Search found 24 matches

by Lay-Man
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:00 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Malcolm, being incorrect is not a problem. It is, if like Lay-Man, you hastily proclaim things as fact when you actually do not have all the facts before you. Lay-Man participated actively in spreading his ill-sourced info. He is responsible for that. People like Magnus were quite proper to correct...
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:08 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Malcolm wrote:
Lay-Man wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
If indeed? Are you completely bereft of your senses?
Ha Ha. Point taken.

Also, your point about the Sakya Ngondro book is pointless. Ngondro is Ngondro, whether it is part of a sadhana or part of a guru yoga.
That is one way to look at it, yes.
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:21 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Malcolm wrote:
Lay-Man wrote: If indeed this source stems from the 16th C...
If indeed? Are you completely bereft of your senses?
Ha Ha. Point taken.
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:54 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Sakya is perhaps the easiest. Dezhung Rinpoche' wrote the first Sakya Ngondro that I know of that is codified as an independent or stand-alone practice. Accumulations are there as it was written in the 20th C. The first Sakya Ngondro is actually part of the Triple Continuum literature, specficially...
by Lay-Man
Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:42 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Im sorry you are so upset. I don't think he wants you to feel pity, I do believe he wants you to supply evidence for your claim. I will respond to both you and Magnus here, and then I would like to be done with this. As a new person to this forum, I have to admit that dealing with both of you has b...
by Lay-Man
Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:34 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

And what is that research? /magnus Ok at this point I am just going to assume you are joking and be done with it. Its either that, or your not actually reading the thread before posting responses! LOL. This is the real joke Lay-Man. Well, I guess I am my own source! :smile: You are the only person ...
by Lay-Man
Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:01 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

The discussion started on this thread because Yagmort asked the question, and I thought it would be helpful to him to share my own research. And what is that research? /magnus Ok at this point I am just going to assume you are joking and be done with it. Its either that, or your not actually readin...
by Lay-Man
Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:05 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Can I ask why you give a shit? Cars are also less than 300 years old, and yet I imagine you drive one. My inquiry has nothing to do with the utility of the practice of accumulation by numbers. Certainly in the older days accumulation through some other mechanism was likely no less rigorous. So the ...
by Lay-Man
Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:12 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Again if you can find me a text which explicitly states a requirement of 100,000 recitation of each of the 4 extra-ordinary practices that is older than 300 years I will revisit my position. But in fact you have not yet done so. Can I ask why you give a shit? Cars are also less than 300 years old, ...
by Lay-Man
Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:46 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Respectfully I am finding it hard to engage in a dialogue with you about this. It is my experience in this thread that you attempt to refute my notional positions with an argument or contrary position, only to change that position when it is addressed, taking up an all together new position. Its un...
by Lay-Man
Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:44 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Understood. I guess from my POV, Tantra is indeed itself an evolution of Buddhism. And from our POV, Vajrayāna is a revelation of the profound methods of Buddhadharma. The source of all teachings is the Realms and Transformations of Sound Tantra , which was taught in the first eon by Nangba Dampa. ...
by Lay-Man
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:32 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

With regards to your position that there is no clear evidence of the "evolution of Ngondro" I would only offer this simple point. Buddha Shakyamuni did not teach on the 4 extra-ordinary practices of Ngondro. In-fact there is no Sutric source for the 4 extra-ordinary practices themselves. Why would ...
by Lay-Man
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:31 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

The question about the codification of 100,000 accumulations is a bit easier to bite of an explore because there seems to be a clear historical demarcation of the accumulations being institutionalized by much of the Sarma traditions in the 17/18 centuries...or so. Please enlighten us what the "clea...
by Lay-Man
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:05 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Yamort, I guess I could look into the actual codification of Ngondro's 4 extra-ordinary practices at some point, but it don't have much time these days with work and my family! The question about the codification of 100,000 accumulations is a bit easier to bite of an explore because there seems to b...
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:55 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

I am merely trying to understand when the actual numerical accumulations were codified into practice in Tibet. But why are you trying understand that? Why is it so important for you? Perhaps you could have a talk with your guru and find out what he/she thinks about it? /magnus This whole thread is ...
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:56 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Following the teachings of the Phyag-khrid (mid-13th century but the contents are obviously older), Bonpos generally do their 'bum-dgu (900 000) preliminaries in 49 days for those of highest capacities and 100 days for those of lower acumen. Mutsuk, Can you please provide me a reference. I am unfam...
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:49 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Cyrus Sterns is of the opinion it is rather late. I am not as certain. For example, Taratnatha mentions doing 100,000 prostastions combined with refuge in this text. tA ra nA tha , thub bstan dge legs rgya mtsho , tshogs gnyis rgya mtsho , 'jam dbyangs mkhyen rab rgya mtsho . "kha 1) thun mong gi s...
by Lay-Man
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:30 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

so does anybody know when did the ngondro the way it is practiced today - that is accumulating 111000 of each - first appear? Well its been an interesting process of trying to explore these other sources that Malcom and Heart have offered. Related to the texts referred to by Heart, I have not been ...
by Lay-Man
Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:52 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

so does anybody know when did the ngondro the way it is practiced today - that is accumulating 111000 of each - first appear? Well its been an interesting process of trying to explore these other sources that Malcom and Heart have offered. Related to the texts referred to by Heart, I have not been ...
by Lay-Man
Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:49 pm
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?
Replies: 239
Views: 32322

Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas practice Ngöndro?

Yes, and your sources for this statement is? :smile: /magnus Well, I guess I am my own source! :smile: I have yet to see Ngondro Commentary or manual written prior to the 17th/18th century which prescribes the 100,000 recitations as an accumulation requirement for preliminary practices. If you have...

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