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by tobes
Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:04 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Adding practices to your Sadhana
Replies: 5
Views: 231

Re: Adding practices to your Sadhana

Tashi delek dear dharma friends. :namaste: I am currently practicing Ngondro and have been encouraged to engage in Lamrim and Lojong practices as well. According to my teacher I should practice them within the context of the Ngondro Sadhana. This is a very vague phrasing and after requestin more gu...
by tobes
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:05 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Replies: 74
Views: 2306

Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment

Empowerments taken in past lives are not a valid basis for practice in this one. Of the three vows, two are lost at death: personal liberation vows and samaya vows. No empowerment, no guru; no guru, no samaya. Claiming one is doing Vajrayana practice when one has not received empowerment is like cl...
by tobes
Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:53 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Replies: 74
Views: 2306

Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment

The ground may have been prepared in previous lives. Empowerments taken in past lives are not a valid basis for practice in this one. Of the three vows, two are lost at death: personal liberation vows and samaya vows. No empowerment, no guru; no guru, no samaya. Claiming one is doing Vajrayana prac...
by tobes
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:56 am
Forum: Tibetan Buddhism
Topic: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Replies: 74
Views: 2306

Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment

Or would it be more appropriate to say that the first time round was "real but a little thin" and that it should now be deepened through at least some continued practice? It seems a bit harsh to say to such people that they were only being tested, and that their efforts were otherwise pointless. PS...
by tobes
Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:47 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

Sure they do, they call it “mere” existence, nominal existence, existence by designation, etc., “Not existent in the ultimate, not nonexistent in then relative.” Are you suggesting that Chandrakirit always refuses lunch? No, I am suggesting he didn’t analyze his lunch at all. But nonetheless he sti...
by tobes
Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:46 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

Thanks for this condescension Malcolm, I had until this point really believed that I was the only one who has listened to a Gelug view.... Based on your comments above, could one draw some other conclusion? I would suggest at this point the thread has reached a natural conclusion. Agreed. Why am I ...
by tobes
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:53 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

In reality, Gelug Madhyamaka is transmitted ... Sure, there is a discussion, but it is not some kind of direct introduction. In fact Tsongkhapa negates the whole idea of direct introduction. One still has to engage in ones own analysis, the Geshe does not do it for you. For the record, you are not ...
by tobes
Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:43 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

All that is negated in the Gelug presentation is svabhava, not bhava, meaning that for them, the ultimate is a nonexistent and the relative is an existent. They never directly negate the table, only the table”s svabhava. Tsongkhapa’s point of view is laid out very clearly in Lam Rim Chen mo. What I...
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:57 pm
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

No, as Tsongkhapa’s reformulation of the twin negation shows. IIf it were, Nagarjuna wound not have insisted on the fourfold negation. It doesn't show this. Only in the cartoon Gelug presentation.....where this is all and only a philosophy glass bead game. "You've left existence untouched!" Well, n...
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:19 pm
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

I’m not sure, but I am of the belief Gelugpas think it does imply a provisional existence. And they are criticized for it. But I’ve been wrong before. Well, everyone eats their provisional lunch, don't they? These are practical matters. And then there’s the Shakespeare diet line affirming existence...
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:42 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

It doesn't show this. Only in the cartoon Gelug presentation.....where this is all and only a philosophy glass bead game. "You've left existence untouched!" Well, no. If something is dependently arisen, it has never existed. So, seeing appearances as dependent arisings after the negation of svabhav...
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:21 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

Existence, bhava, and the rest. In other words, it is not sufficient to negate only svabhava. Svabhava entails the grasping to existence. If it is negated, so too is the grasping to existence. No, as Tsongkhapa’s reformulation of the twin negation shows. IIf it were, Nagarjuna wound not have insist...
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:56 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

I mean, if the object of Madhyamaka critique/negation is not svabhava , then what else could it possibly be? Existence, bhava, and the rest. In other words, it is not sufficient to negate only svabhava. Svabhava entails the grasping to existence. If it is negated, so too is the grasping to existence.
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:24 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

I mean, if the object of Madhyamaka critique/negation is not svabhava, then what else could it possibly be?
by tobes
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:00 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

I've never heard any Gelugpa negate intrinsic existence only to discover the thing remains..... So mere existence is negated? It isn't left over? What about "Not existing in the ultimate, not not existing the relative?" This after all is Tsongkhapa's famous formulation of the negation of existence ...
by tobes
Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:41 pm
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

Also: if tables are empty of inherent existence, then they are necessarily also empty of being tables. Not according to Gelug analysis— tables are not empty of mere existence as tables, only inherent existence, which is something other than the table itself. These kinds of interpretations remind me...
by tobes
Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:16 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

It means that Tsongkhapa also argued for a kind of extrinsic emptiness. Tables aren’t empty of tables, they are only empty of inherent existence. Is this what Gendun Chopel criticized when he said that Tsonkhapa's formulation of the object of negation resulted in a completely pointless refutation? ...
by tobes
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:52 am
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Abrahamic religions and Buddhism
Replies: 83
Views: 2299

Re: Abrahamic religions and Buddhism

For transparency, I suppose I should say that I met my current partner at a big teaching by HHDL, whilst she was chatting to the Khandro of my root master.... And that although it has not always been easy, to share practices together, to share a Dharma kinship....is pretty special, and no doubt the ...
by tobes
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:41 pm
Forum: Mahāyāna Buddhism
Topic: Abrahamic religions and Buddhism
Replies: 83
Views: 2299

Re: Abrahamic religions and Buddhism

My wife is a practising catholic and I've been practising Buddhism since before we met. Next august we've been married for 20 years. I go to mass with her at Christmas and Easter and she occasionally accompanies me to the Thai buddhist temple. Neither of us has ever been the recipient of any animos...
by tobes
Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:02 am
Forum: Kagyu
Topic: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Replies: 108
Views: 4061

Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?

But I think the vastness and profundity of his approach puts our own little too'ings and fro'ings on these sorts of issues into the correct perspective: it's all Dharma. Just drink as much of it as you can and stop worrying about your petty fixations to this thing or that.

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