Svabhavikakaya and Nature

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Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun May 13, 2012 2:38 pm

Tashi delek,

Could one equal Nature, used in Dzogchen, with Svabhavikakaya / ngo bo nyid kyi sku?
I heard that the term Svabhavikakaya would be used (only) in the Gelug Tradition ?

Mutsog Marro
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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 13, 2012 5:24 pm

Hi Kalden Yungdrung

I still think that the word Svabhavikakaya could be and/or is used in the context of Dzogchen, and as such is directly related to the inseparability or inseparableness of Essence, Nature, and Potentiality/Compassionate-Energy.

It seems that the terms Ngowo/Svabhava and Rangzhin/Prakriti get used interchangeably at times.

I'm sure someone can explain better though.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Sun May 13, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun May 13, 2012 5:53 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Hi Kalden Yungdrung

I still think that the word Svabhavikakaya is directly related to the inseparability or inseparableness of Essence, Nature, and Potentiality/Compassionate-Energy.

It seems that the terms Ngowo/Svabhava and Rangzhin/Prakriti get used interchangeably at times.

I'm sure someone can explain better though.



Tashi delek,

Thanks for the reply.

So Nature does or does not encompass Svabhavikakaya, that is here the point ?

Mutsog Marro
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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 13, 2012 6:36 pm

In the context of what I've edited in to my previous post, it seems that the Svabhavikakaya would encompass Nature.
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun May 13, 2012 6:38 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:In the context of what I've edited in to my previous post, it seems that the Svabhavikakaya would encompass Nature.



Tashi delek,

Is your opinion maybe based on Tantra ?


Mutsog Marro
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 13, 2012 6:44 pm

Well I'm quite sure that I've seen the word Svabhavikakaya used in the context of Dzogchen by authors who know what they're talking about, which means that my conclusions here could be correct.

However if the said authors are using the word Svabhavikakaya for Dzogchen only because they are incorrectly mixing up Tantra and Dzogchen, then I obviously could be mistaken in my conclusions here.
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sun May 13, 2012 6:50 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Well I'm quite sure that I've seen the word Svabhavikakaya used in the context of Dzogchen by authors who know what they're talking about, which means that my conclusions here could be correct.

However if the said authors are using the word Svabhavikakaya for Dzogchen only because they are incorrectly mixing up Tantra and Dzogchen, then I obviously could be mistaken in my conclusions here.



Tashi delek,

Thanks for the reply.

Could you mention the names about the said authors?


Mutsog Marro
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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun May 13, 2012 7:32 pm

In regard to my previous post it could be that the mentioned authors wrote everything in proper context and that I'm the one mixing things up.

For starters, could look up chapter 34 of Quintessential Dzogchen that has an excerpt from Light of Wisdom Vol. V, and also the Thupten Jinpa Tibetan Book of the Dead.
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Re: Svabhavikakaya and Nature

Postby In the bone yard » Tue May 15, 2012 3:26 pm

Svabhavikakaya = 3 kayas or 3 bodies.
Once a Foe Destroyer, one develops recognition of these bodies on the path.

Lineages have different terms and instructions, but they all lead to the same thing.
It doesn't matter what lineage a term belongs to. How does that help?

They are just concepts until we recognize the pointing out.
We are making it more difficult and a waste of time...so many more lives we have to go through.
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