Svabhavikakaya and Nature

[kalden yungdrung]

Tashi delek,

Could one equal Nature, used in Dzogchen, with Svabhavikakaya / ngo bo nyid kyi sku?
I heard that the term Svabhavikakaya would be used (only) in the Gelug Tradition ?

Mutsog Marro
KY

[Lhug-Pa]

Hi Kalden Yungdrung

I still think that the word Svabhavikakaya could be and/or is used in the context of Dzogchen, and as such is directly related to the inseparability or inseparableness of Essence, Nature, and Potentiality/Compassionate-Energy.

It seems that the terms Ngowo/Svabhava and Rangzhin/Prakriti get used interchangeably at times.

I'm sure someone can explain better though.

[kalden yungdrung]

Hi Kalden Yungdrung

I still think that the word Svabhavikakaya is directly related to the inseparability or inseparableness of Essence, Nature, and Potentiality/Compassionate-Energy.

It seems that the terms Ngowo/Svabhava and Rangzhin/Prakriti get used interchangeably at times.

I'm sure someone can explain better though.

Tashi delek,

Thanks for the reply.

So Nature does or does not encompass Svabhavikakaya, that is here the point ?

Mutsog Marro
KY

[Lhug-Pa]

In the context of what I've edited in to my previous post, it seems that the Svabhavikakaya would encompass Nature.

[kalden yungdrung]

In the context of what I've edited in to my previous post, it seems that the Svabhavikakaya would encompass Nature.

Tashi delek,

Is your opinion maybe based on Tantra ?


Mutsog Marro
KY

[Lhug-Pa]

Well I'm quite sure that I've seen the word Svabhavikakaya used in the context of Dzogchen by authors who know what they're talking about, which means that my conclusions here could be correct.

However if the said authors are using the word Svabhavikakaya for Dzogchen only because they are incorrectly mixing up Tantra and Dzogchen, then I obviously could be mistaken in my conclusions here.

[kalden yungdrung]

Well I'm quite sure that I've seen the word Svabhavikakaya used in the context of Dzogchen by authors who know what they're talking about, which means that my conclusions here could be correct.

However if the said authors are using the word Svabhavikakaya for Dzogchen only because they are incorrectly mixing up Tantra and Dzogchen, then I obviously could be mistaken in my conclusions here.

Tashi delek,

Thanks for the reply.

Could you mention the names about the said authors?


Mutsog Marro
KY

[Lhug-Pa]

In regard to my previous post it could be that the mentioned authors wrote everything in proper context and that I'm the one mixing things up.

For starters, could look up chapter 34 of Quintessential Dzogchen that has an excerpt from Light of Wisdom Vol. V, and also the Thupten Jinpa Tibetan Book of the Dead.

[In the bone yard]

Svabhavikakaya = 3 kayas or 3 bodies.
Once a Foe Destroyer, one develops recognition of these bodies on the path.

Lineages have different terms and instructions, but they all lead to the same thing.
It doesn't matter what lineage a term belongs to. How does that help?

They are just concepts until we recognize the pointing out.
We are making it more difficult and a waste of time...so many more lives we have to go through.