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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:18 pm 
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mzaur, you are correct to point out that emptiness has attributes, that it is infact not empty at all. talk of emptiness and nothingness goes way back, but trying to create a logical framework around the experience probably fails.

thank you for pointing this out.

my intention was to point out to Wesley, a christian, that in the Christian tradition there has been an experience of emptiness, though the language used may be somewhat different.

rgds, Tom.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:53 pm 
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In the self-study of my mind, I find myself searching for other intelligence and can't seem to find anything.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:52 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
In the self-study of my mind, I find myself searching for other intelligence and can't seem to find anything.


What other intelligence are you searching for? Or what is the nature of the other intelligence you are hoping to find?


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:19 pm 
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asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
In the self-study of my mind, I find myself searching for other intelligence and can't seem to find anything.


What other intelligence are you searching for? Or what is the nature of the other intelligence you are hoping to find?


Generally speaking, just people that aren't on the Internet or on T.V. . .


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 pm 
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asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
In the self-study of my mind, I find myself searching for other intelligence and can't seem to find anything.


What other intelligence are you searching for? Or what is the nature of the other intelligence you are hoping to find?


There isn't anyone there outside of Internet, Phone or T.V. except God or the Great Buddha.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:17 am 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
In the self-study of my mind, I find myself searching for other intelligence and can't seem to find anything.


What other intelligence are you searching for? Or what is the nature of the other intelligence you are hoping to find?


There isn't anyone there outside of Internet, Phone or T.V. except God or the Great Buddha.


"There" as in realized or of sufficient realization to teach competently? Certainly... but I believe you mentioned that you are located in an area without much access to teachers or a community, is that what you mean? Have you tried seeing if there are any dharma-related groups in the area? Reading/study groups? Perhaps even a course on the dharma(or eastern religion/philosophy) at a local community college could be helpful in the time-being while you seek a qualified teacher. Granted those places wouldn't be guaranteed to have competent individuals who could truly answer questions with accuracy, but at least you could share some ideas and gain some insight. At the same time, the internet isn't a bad place to stay in the time being either, lots of access to videos, ebooks, other writings, perhaps there's communities on skype or another application like that. Just stick with it, everything will come together if you desire it to... I'm sure the resources are there somewhere even if it feels like you're searching for a needle in a haystack.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Yea, generally there's just not anyone there.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:52 pm 
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White Lotus wrote:
mzaur, you are correct to point out that emptiness has attributes, that it is infact not empty at all. talk of emptiness and nothingness goes way back,


Emptiness is empty, but it's not nothing or nothingness.

Kirt

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:53 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
Yea, generally there's just not anyone there.


But that doesn't mean that there's no one there.

Kirt

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Technically, you could go places and find people.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
Technically, you could go places and find people.


Why only technically?

Kirt

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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:30 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
Technically, you could go places and find people.


Why only technically?

Kirt


From my POV the natural & physical world doesn't have any consciousness or intelligence other than certain people who are aware of your existence.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:39 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
White Lotus wrote:
mzaur, you are correct to point out that emptiness has attributes, that it is infact not empty at all. talk of emptiness and nothingness goes way back,


Emptiness is empty, but it's not nothing or nothingness.

Reminds me of a quote from the Tao Te Ching:

Just because there is nothing,
does not mean there is no thing.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
Technically, you could go places and find people.


Why only technically?

Kirt


From my POV the natural & physical world doesn't have any consciousness or intelligence other than certain people who are aware of your existence.


Ok - but in reality we are living in a sea of beings all of whom have a mind and thus consciousness and some degree of intelligence. For example, you are surrounded by at least thousands (and probably millions) of insects and other animals no matter where you are. Just within a few miles of you. And unless you are very far away from others you are surrounded by at least hundreds of people at all times. All of them have a mind.

Then we can speak of the natural world as a computational process. This doesn't mean that the natural world has a consciousness but much more information flows through the natural world than people are aware of.

Then in some forms of Buddhism the natural world is explicitly the home of numerous unseen beings.

Kirt

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:15 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
Ok - but in reality we are living in a sea of beings all of whom have a mind and thus consciousness and some degree of intelligence. For example, you are surrounded by at least thousands (and probably millions) of insects and other animals no matter where you are. Just within a few miles of you. And unless you are very far away from others you are surrounded by at least hundreds of people at all times. All of them have a mind.

Then we can speak of the natural world as a computational process. This doesn't mean that the natural world has a consciousness but much more information flows through the natural world than people are aware of.

Then in some forms of Buddhism the natural world is explicitly the home of numerous unseen beings.

Kirt


Sure, if you're walking down a busy street in New York you're going to find people but not here.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Wesley1982 wrote:
Technically, you could go places and find people.


Why only technically?

Kirt


From my POV the natural & physical world doesn't have any consciousness or intelligence other than certain people who are aware of your existence.


Wesley, I cordially challenge you to locate a world separate from consciousness.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:28 pm 
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asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley, I cordially challenge you to locate a world separate from consciousness.


The middle-center of a large concrete block? . . -or- the concrete + asphalt jungles we've created? . .


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Ok - but in reality we are living in a sea of beings all of whom have a mind and thus consciousness and some degree of intelligence. For example, you are surrounded by at least thousands (and probably millions) of insects and other animals no matter where you are. Just within a few miles of you. And unless you are very far away from others you are surrounded by at least hundreds of people at all times. All of them have a mind.

Then we can speak of the natural world as a computational process. This doesn't mean that the natural world has a consciousness but much more information flows through the natural world than people are aware of.

Then in some forms of Buddhism the natural world is explicitly the home of numerous unseen beings.

Kirt


Sure, if you're walking down a busy street in New York you're going to find people but not here.


It looks like I misunderstood you. So you aren't saying that only some beings have a mind are you? Somehow that's what I interpreted you to have said.

So you are actually talking about the scarcity of realized people or people with knowledge of Dharma?

Kirt

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Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Wesley1982 wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:
Wesley, I cordially challenge you to locate a world separate from consciousness.


The middle-center of a large concrete block? . . -or- the concrete + asphalt jungles we've created? . .


And how does the concrete block appear? Take the grey color, and the cube shape; do those attributes exist separately from the seeing of them? Are the greyness and the visual shape qualities which can be accessed without vision?


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:00 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
It looks like I misunderstood you. So you aren't saying that only some beings have a mind are you? Somehow that's what I interpreted you to have said.

So you are actually talking about the scarcity of realized people or people with knowledge of Dharma?

Kirt


I think my original intention was to say that in my current location theres only few people in-between. "here and there" . .


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