Who should attend DC webcast?

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu May 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga...


Also, if this is the case; does it suggest that a person not having unmistakably discovered the Natural State, also means when Lungs are being given that such a person does not actually receive them?


And so my previous post doesn't get lost in the mix:



Lhug-Pa wrote:Thanks Sönam, that would be good to know.

If I'm not mistaken, Rinpoche has implied that through the practice of Guru Yoga we can discover our Real Nature, that is, even if we don't fully discover during the Direct Introduction.

Although maybe what you've said here does not suggest otherwise. But only that if one didn't discover the Nature of Mind, then there is no Samaya. In other words, even if the candidate did not fully discover during the Direct Introduction, the seed of the Transmission is still planted so to speak, and so then one can either go on to keep trying to discover our Real Nature or not, without having any mandatory commitment to do so; but then as soon as one does discover the Nature of Mind, we at that point do have the Samaya to keep going on the Path until complete Liberation, yes?
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Josef » Thu May 10, 2012 7:52 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:
Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga...


Also, if this is the case; does it suggest that a person not having unmistakably discovered the Natural State, also means when Lungs are being given that such a person does not actually receive them?

No, you still get the lung.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Pero » Thu May 10, 2012 8:31 pm

Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga ... therefore you have no samaya just because you listen to a teaching.

Sonam

Uh when did he say that? It doesn't make any sense to me...
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby dakini_boi » Thu May 10, 2012 9:15 pm

I agree, I had the sense that even if you didn't recognize rigpa during transmission, guru yoga is the main practice by which you can recognize later on your own.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Sönam » Thu May 10, 2012 11:08 pm

Pero wrote:
Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga ... therefore you have no samaya just because you listen to a teaching.

Sonam

Uh when did he say that? It doesn't make any sense to me...


I could found my reference back. I went through many documents, but could'nt found it back ... I'm still looking after it.
Nevertheless, because of the particularity of the experience of the realization of the nature of the mind as it is transmited by the Guru, Guru Yoga take only his complete sense after one realize it ... and there the commitment/samaya start to have a real sense. Before it's just a question of faith, not fact.
So it makes sense to me.

Sönam
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Pero » Thu May 10, 2012 11:20 pm

Ah I think I get it now. What he probably said is that the real meaning/sense of GY is knowing the nature of mind or something to that effect. That is not the same as saying there is no sense in doing GY if you don't know the nature of mind. I've heard him say similar as the former many times but never the latter. I think that's what you're trying to say too but maybe it got lost in translation. :smile:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dronma » Mon May 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Rinpoche will give tomorrow a Lecture at University of HongKong.
This is a good opportunity for inviting the people who might be interested in the teaching without any risk of breaking samayas etc.
On Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 from 7pm to 9pm (GTM+8) there will be webcast of Rinpoche's public lecture at the Chinese University of Hongkong.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:47 pm

It was mentioned in another thread about making the connection to the Guru via webcast (or as Pema Rigdzin has often said, the connection is not actually made through the webcast itself, but by being in the same moment as the Guru; the webcast itself having the same function as speakers and a microphone) and not always being able to verify if the connection was made....

And after reading more of The Supreme Source (Kunjed Gyalpo), particularly the part about who are fit vessels to receive the Dzogchen teaching and who is not fit to receive it; I wonder if everyone who attends the webcasts with the intention to receive Direct Introduction, actually makes the connection. I don't doubt that one can make the connection via webcast; however what happens if someone is unsure and has no means to meet Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche in person in order to verify if they have made the connection or not?

If they think they made the connection but didn't, and then try to practice, that could cause some potentially serious problems.

If they did actually make the connection, yet they're not totally sure if they made the connection, and therefore give up on even practicing the Rushens out of doubt, then they would be breaking their Samaya by giving up on practicing, that is if they drop the practice of Dzogchen altogether.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:02 pm

In thinking about it more, I wonder if the Kunjed Gyalpo Tantra was written during a time when the criteria for who is allowed to receive Dzogchen teachings was different.

As in perhaps the Dharmapalas have made some changes to the said criteria, due to the fact that times are different. For example, someone had mentioned that Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche was specifically given permission by the Dharmapalas to unrestrictedly publish a specific Dzogchen book that would otherwise be restricted.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:37 pm

I've been delighted at how open the webcasts have been, and how generously the lungs etc are given.

I think the open webcasts will enable any person who is sensitive to make a personal connection and delve deeper, and enable those who don't 'get it' to seek alternatives.


I don't know enough to guide anyone, but one person said to me that the Song of the Vajra made them feel queasy and that the feeling went from their head and throat down to their heart and then seemed to settle there and become pleasant. Now I thought that was great, but I could be wrong! LOL :)
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:54 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:I've been delighted at how open the webcasts have been, and how generously the lungs etc are given.


Same here. :)

It's just that in reading The Supreme Source, and other Dzogchen writings, I've gotten the impression that Dzogchen is not for everyone; and that if it's not for someone, then resolving what should be done about having received Dzogchen teachings only to find out that one lacks capacity, should be taken seriously.

But again, as I'd mentioned, times have changed; so maybe the criteria for who is a 'fit vessel' have also changed.

Anyway, that's an interesting experience of The Song of the Vajra. Can't say it's ever made me "queasy" lol (although maybe "queasy" has a different meaning in Britain than it does in America). Some of my experiences have ranged from "not much happening" to actually getting quite emotional.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:57 pm

Lhasa wrote:Maybe it's not well known but both ChNN and Tenzin Rinpoche read their emails. If someone questions whether they've made the connection they can contact the teacher directly.


Some would maybe argue that how could a Lama know if you made the connection, via email? But I'll bet that they could have the capacity to know. ;)

Of course what is more important, is that we try to discover and know for ourselves; even though it's best to also try to verify with our Teacher somehow if we're not sure. :idea:

Blue Garuda, maybe your friend meant "queasy" as in getting a little choked up due to the emotions that can sometimes manifest.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Wesley1982 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:18 pm

Re: Who should attend DC webcast?


I'll attend though I'd rather be there in person and practice sitting.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby asunthatneversets » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:28 pm

Wesley1982 wrote:
Re: Who should attend DC webcast?


I'll attend though I'd rather be there in person and practice sitting.


Well it's happening right now!
http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/video.php
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Jacob » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:52 pm

You said in this thread that we connect even if we don't FULLY discover during the Direct Introduction. What about situation, when someone received DI many times, but didn't discover or feel anything at all? It has no value then? Or there is some seed that enables us to connect to transmission and discover?
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby heart » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:56 pm

Jacob wrote:You said in this thread that we connect even if we don't FULLY discover during the Direct Introduction. What about situation, when someone received DI many times, but didn't discover or feel anything at all? It has no value then? Or there is some seed that enables us to connect to transmission and discover?


Good question, it certainly happens that way.

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:15 pm

In today's webcast Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche clearly stated that if we are not sure if we discovered our Real Nature during the Direct Introduction, that we should not worry, because if we intend to receive it, then we will receive it. So instead of worrying about it, we should have confidence in the Transmission, practice Guru Yoga, and apply other methods (Rushen, Semdzin, the Song of the Vajra, etc.) until doubts are removed (Second Statement of Garab Dorje).

I'm a poor student, so sometime's when I read in Dzogchen writings about the qualifications that the student should have in order to qualify for receiving the Transmission, I see that many of those qualities are lacking in myself so I start to have doubts, despite the fact that the Dzogchen teachings have helped me in many ways. But since all qualities are already perfected in the Natural State, then we should do our best to discover that State and remain in the Natural State. :buddha1:

Because the only "poor student" is our ego who wants to be a "good student", right?
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:17 pm

Jacob wrote:You said in this thread that we connect even if we don't FULLY discover during the Direct Introduction. What about situation, when someone received DI many times, but didn't discover or feel anything at all? It has no value then? Or there is some seed that enables us to connect to transmission and discover?

Yes, that's the million dollar question. Fortunately ChNN answers it frequently. Rushens, Semdzins, the four contemplations from the Semde series are swift ways of discovering the natural state after direct introduction. So yes, there is great value in receiving oral transmission, symbolic transmission and direct transmission, even if you don't recognize instant presence at that moment. That is quite natural. Then, you practice adequately to discover it. If no matter what you do you can't discover it, then you should see the lama and try to understand what is failing.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:18 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:In today's webcast Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche clearly stated that if we are not sure if we discovered our Real Nature during the Direct Introduction, that we should not worry, because if we intend to receive it, then we will receive it. So instead of worrying about it, we should have confidence in the Transmission and apply the methods (Rushen, Semdzin, the Song of the Vajra, etc.) until doubts are removed (Second Statement of Garab Dorje).

I'm a poor student, so sometime's when I read in Dzogchen writings about the qualifications that the student should have in order to qualify for receiving the Transmission, I see that many of those qualities are lacking in myself so I start to have doubts, despite the fact that the Dzogchen teachings have helped me in many ways. But since all qualities are already perfected in the Natural State, then we should do our best to discover that State and remain in the Natural State. :buddha1:

Because the only "poor student" is our ego who wants to be a "good student", right?

When you find one of the five qualities missing, you also know they are well beneath your grasp to achieve. It's just a matter of putting ourselves to it. They are not that difficult to achieve.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Jacob » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:21 pm

And what about Guru Yoga? Does making it before discovering rigpa has any value? I think it does (for example to establish some good connection to transmission) but after reading this thread i have some doubts.

Sonam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga

Well, i think i heared exactlly opposite... :shrug:
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