Who should attend DC webcast?

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Sönam » Wed May 09, 2012 9:46 pm

In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga ... therefore you have no samaya just because you listen to a teaching.

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Pero » Wed May 09, 2012 9:48 pm

dakini_boi wrote:Right, thank you all for your input.

So should I make sure my interested friends realize that by taking part in the webcast, they should be willing to practice guru yoga daily (and of course, in its most essential form it can be done in a few seconds)?

Well I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion that if it were me, I'd just tell them about the webcasts and whatever would happen would happen. You're not responsible for them and they're not going to burn in hell or whatever if they don't follow the teachings after the webcast.

Only maybe have them read The Crystal And The Way Of Light first. That will give them an idea what it's all about, satisfy their curiousity if that's all there is or encourage them to follow the teachings. Honestly, when I started out, if I hadn't read CatWoL first and I would've heard about Dzogchen elsewhere and people would've started telling me about commitments I probably wouldn't have gone for it.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 pm

dakini_boi wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:So if I were . . . an advanced HYT practitioner seeking to explore Dzogchen, I think this thread would probably confuse me.

Can anyone clarify this in simple terms, please.


Well, as far as you're concerned, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by receiving transmission from ChNNR. Why? The only practice commitment he requires is guru yoga, and once you receive dzogchen transmission, any guru yoga you practice can fulfill that commitment. In fact, in this last retreat, he gave the example of how he was asked to teach dzogchen at a Gelug monastery - he gave a commentary on the migtsema Lama Tsongkhapa guru yoga, explaining it in dzogchen terms. The monks weren't satisfied, saying they wanted a dzogchen teaching! But he had already given them a dzogchen teaching, explaining in a way that they would be able most seamlessly to integrate into their practice.


Thanks. I understand now that Tsongkhapa Guru Yoga may satisfy the commitment, but what exaclty is the transmission that is the prerequisite? Sorry for being a newbie in this respect, as this may not be on-topic, but I guess it does help identify who should attend a DC webcast where there is this 'transmission'.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Pero » Wed May 09, 2012 9:52 pm

So who should attend? Anyone who is interested. :smile:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby dakini_boi » Wed May 09, 2012 9:54 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:what exaclty is the transmission that is the prerequisite?


There is no prerequisite. The transmission that has been mentioned is always given in the webcast, whether ChNNR is giving Ati Guru Yoga, or one of the WWT's (which happen 3x a year), or even, I am told, when he is teaching about anything. There is no prerequisite to taking part in the webast and receiving these.

No need to apologize, this is important to understand!
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby dakini_boi » Wed May 09, 2012 9:56 pm

Pero wrote:Well I thought about it a bit more and came to the conclusion that if it were me, I'd just tell them about the webcasts and whatever would happen would happen. You're not responsible for them and they're not going to burn in hell or whatever if they don't follow the teachings after the webcast.

Only maybe have them read The Crystal And The Way Of Light first. That will give them an idea what it's all about, satisfy their curiousity if that's all there is or encourage them to follow the teachings. Honestly, when I started out, if I hadn't read CatWoL first and I would've heard about Dzogchen elsewhere and people would've started telling me about commitments I probably wouldn't have gone for it.

:good: Thank you, good answer. I agree, and I had the same experience myself! I figured, what the heck, this dzogchen master is going to give me transmission for free in my living room, why not? And since then it has become a significant part of my education. . .
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed May 09, 2012 9:59 pm

Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga ... therefore you have no samaya just because you listen to a teaching.


But if one intends to participate and receive the Transmission during the webcast; I thought that that in itself is sufficient for receiving the Transmission and for practicing Guru Yoga, even if one is not completely sure if they discovered the Nature of Mind. Hence the reason for Rushen and Semdzin practices.

Or are you saying that if one isn't sure if they discovered the Nature of Mind during the webcast, then they should hold off on practicing Guru Yoga until after they discover the Nature of Mind through the practice of Rushen or Semdzins?
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed May 09, 2012 10:03 pm

dakini_boi wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:what exaclty is the transmission that is the prerequisite?


There is no prerequisite. The transmission that has been mentioned is always given in the webcast, whether ChNNR is giving Ati Guru Yoga, or one of the WWT's (which happen 3x a year), or even, I am told, when he is teaching about anything. There is no prerequisite to taking part in the webast and receiving these.

No need to apologize, this is important to understand!


Sorry. I think I didn't express myself very well.

If the Transmission is received before undertaking the Guru Yoga, what is the Transmission?

I understand the rest, and that the Transmission seems readily available in the webcasts, but not what the 'Transmission' actually is.

Thanks.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed May 09, 2012 10:14 pm

From what I understand so far, with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, if he is specifically giving Dzogchen teachings live, and you intend to participate and receive the Transmission, then he always intends that you receive it. In other words, if you're attending live Dzogchen teachings from him and you intend to receive Direct Introduction, then you will receive the Transmission regardless of the impact it had on you. If you don't think you fully discovered what Rigpa is during the teaching, then you practice Rushen and/or Semdzin's. Of course there are many Dzogchen methods for Direct Introduction, namely Mind-to-Mind, Symbolic, and Oral.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed May 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:From what I understand, with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, if he is specifically giving Dzogchen teachings live, and you intend to receive the Transmission, then he always intends that you receive it. In other words, if you're attending live Dzogchen teachings from him and you intend to receive Direct Introduction, then you will receive the Transmission regardless of the impact it had on you. If you don't think you fully discovered what Rigpa is during the teaching, then you practice Rushen and/or Semdzin's. Of course there are many Dzogchen methods for Direct Introduction, mainly Mind-to-Mind, Symbolic, and Oral.


Ah, I see. Thanks. :)

This seems to have been, and feels to have been, an aspect of the recent empowerment I received from Dzogchen Rinpoche.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dronma » Wed May 09, 2012 10:42 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:This seems to contradict Dronma who says there is always THE commitment.


When I am talking about THE commitment, I don't mean only the formal Guru Yoga.... ;)
However, I shall repeat that ChNN Rinpoche does not give formal commitments, except of some special transmissions like Thogal and Yangti.

Blue Garuda wrote:My experience of Gelugpa empowerments, which are presumably very different, is that an empowerment may be attended as a 'blessing' if someone does not wish to take vows or make commitments.


ChNN Rinpoche often explains that all empowerments include commitments and they are never a simple blessing. He says if we need a blessing, then there is no reason to follow teachings or initiations, we may go directly to the teacher and ask for a blessing!

Blue Garuda wrote:It seems that you are saying that all 'open' webcasts have no commtiments, others have mentioned that all have the Guru Yoga commtiment, or THE commitment.

So if I were a newbie interested in finding out more, or an advanced HYT practitioner seeking to explore Dzogchen, I think this thread would probably confuse me.

Can anyone clarify this in simple terms, please.

I'm still not sure that there is an answer to the OP.


Well, I say that ALL transmissions have commitments, and it should be better if people are aware of this!
From my little experience I know that some old practitioners of DC have developed a different understanding of the teachings and they are not so much responsible about their commitments.
Fortunately, I belong to the new generation of ChNN' students.... :D

PS. There are not specific answers that anybody can receive externally from others, whether he/she should attend a teaching or not....
Better ask directly yourself and take the responsibility of your personal decision. :namaste:
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhasa » Wed May 09, 2012 10:48 pm

Is there a difference between empowerments and transmission?
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 pm

Dronma wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:This seems to contradict Dronma who says there is always THE commitment.


When I am talking about THE commitment, I don't mean only the formal Guru Yoga.... ;)
However, I shall repeat that ChNN Rinpoche does not give formal commitments, except of some special transmissions like Thogal and Yangti.

Blue Garuda wrote:My experience of Gelugpa empowerments, which are presumably very different, is that an empowerment may be attended as a 'blessing' if someone does not wish to take vows or make commitments.


ChNN Rinpoche often explains that all empowerments include commitments and they are never a simple blessing. He says if we need a blessing, then there is no reason to follow teachings or initiations, we may go directly to the teacher and ask for a blessing!

Blue Garuda wrote:It seems that you are saying that all 'open' webcasts have no commtiments, others have mentioned that all have the Guru Yoga commtiment, or THE commitment.

So if I were a newbie interested in finding out more, or an advanced HYT practitioner seeking to explore Dzogchen, I think this thread would probably confuse me.

Can anyone clarify this in simple terms, please.

I'm still not sure that there is an answer to the OP.


Well, I say that ALL transmissions have commitments, and it should be better if people are aware of this!
From my little experience I know that some old practitioners of DC have developed a different understanding of the teachings and they are not so much responsible about their commitments.
Fortunately, I belong to the new generation of ChNN' students.... :D

PS. There are not specific answers that anybody can receive externally from others, whether he/she should attend a teaching or not....
Better ask directly yourself and take the responsibility of your personal decision. :namaste:


That seems like a very clear response to the OP. Thanks. :)
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Dronma » Wed May 09, 2012 11:17 pm

Lhasa wrote:Is there a difference between empowerments and transmission?


Yes, there is. The Empowerments are mostly traditional initiations. Transmissions can be oral teachings, Lung of practices, Direct Dzogchen Transmission etc.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhasa » Thu May 10, 2012 12:50 am

Thanks
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Josef » Thu May 10, 2012 12:56 am

I think it also depends on the person who is introducing someone to the webcast.
For instance, it would be pretty unlikely at this point for me to recommend a webcast to someone other than family and friends who will be engaged in discussion with me in regards to what is going on with the webcast.
If they express interest, I am happy to facilitate but I want to make sure that they are going to take it seriously.
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby heart » Thu May 10, 2012 5:07 am

Blue Garuda wrote:
If the Transmission is received before undertaking the Guru Yoga, what is the Transmission?

I understand the rest, and that the Transmission seems readily available in the webcasts, but not what the 'Transmission' actually is.

Thanks.


ChNNR teaches and give "lung" for many different practices on every webcast. When he teaches on a text, like for example the Yeshe Lama, he will give "tri lung", that is both "lung" for the text and also explanation ("tri") on each part of the text. On the three transmissions day he will give direct introduction in the context of a practice that you do together with him. For example on the transmission day of Garab Dorje we do a modified version of the Guru Yoga with a white AH together with Rinpoche. Sometimes he will give something like these during other webacsts as well. Sometimes he gives something more similar to an ordinary empowerment as well.

I know you already know this but for others I would like to say that to do the practice of Dzogchen you will need to continuously listen to Rinpoches webcast and receive the various transmission, in particular direct introduction, many many times. You also have to practice a lot. To do the practices you actually have to get help from the Sangha. Rinpoche also put great emphasis on collaboration with the Sangha it seems to me.

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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Sönam » Thu May 10, 2012 8:24 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:
Sönam wrote:In addition, Rinpoché also says that if you did'nt realize the nature of your mind, there is no real sens to do Guru Yoga ... therefore you have no samaya just because you listen to a teaching.


But if one intends to participate and receive the Transmission during the webcast; I thought that that in itself is sufficient for receiving the Transmission and for practicing Guru Yoga, even if one is not completely sure if they discovered the Nature of Mind. Hence the reason for Rushen and Semdzin practices.

Or are you saying that if one isn't sure if they discovered the Nature of Mind during the webcast, then they should hold off on practicing Guru Yoga until after they discover the Nature of Mind through the practice of Rushen or Semdzins?


I've try to found where I read that Rinpoché says so, but I could not found the exact quote ... I will found it and quote it there latter. Anyway, as far as I can remember, the commitment (samaya) regarding Guru Yoga is only valid when one has "realized" the nature of mind, not only received the direct introduction.

Sönam
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu May 10, 2012 8:59 am

heart wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:
If the Transmission is received before undertaking the Guru Yoga, what is the Transmission?

I understand the rest, and that the Transmission seems readily available in the webcasts, but not what the 'Transmission' actually is.

Thanks.


ChNNR teaches and give "lung" for many different practices on every webcast. When he teaches on a text, like for example the Yeshe Lama, he will give "tri lung", that is both "lung" for the text and also explanation ("tri") on each part of the text. On the three transmissions day he will give direct introduction in the context of a practice that you do together with him. For example on the transmission day of Garab Dorje we do a modified version of the Guru Yoga with a white AH together with Rinpoche. Sometimes he will give something like these during other webacsts as well. Sometimes he gives something more similar to an ordinary empowerment as well.

I know you already know this but for others I would like to say that to do the practice of Dzogchen you will need to continuously listen to Rinpoches webcast and receive the various transmission, in particular direct introduction, many many times. You also have to practice a lot. To do the practices you actually have to get help from the Sangha. Rinpoche also put great emphasis on collaboration with the Sangha it seems to me.

/magnus


Thanks. :)
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Re: Who should attend DC webcast?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu May 10, 2012 5:01 pm

Thanks Sönam, that would be good to know.

If I'm not mistaken, Rinpoche has implied that through the practice of Guru Yoga we can discover our Real Nature, that is, even if we don't fully discover during the Direct Introduction.

Although maybe what you've said here does not suggest otherwise. But only that if one didn't discover the Nature of Mind, then there is no Samaya. In other words, even if the candidate did not fully discover during the Direct Introduction, the seed of the Transmission is still planted so to speak, and so then one can either go on to keep trying to discover our Real Nature or not, without having any mandatory commitment to do so; but then as soon as one does discover the Nature of Mind, we at that point do have the Samaya to keep going on the Path until complete Liberation, yes?
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