Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue May 08, 2012 2:36 pm

Aemilius wrote:...There are social structures and hierarchies also in the animal world. Some of these are well studied, like the society of wolves as an example, and many others.
What Kropotkin well describes are the organisations of villages, of clans, of guilds, of medieval cities and so on... These are all basic forms of organising.
There is an evolution of organisational structures in the human realm. This is an undeniable fact.
Quite obviously you do not understand the difference between organisation and hierarchy. Orgainsations can be non-hierarchical.
Maybe you think that when hierarchy is accepted by everyone it is not "formal" and "not strict" ?
Where did I say this? There is a difference though between natural and enforced hierarchy.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby Jikan » Tue May 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Now I need to reread Kropotkin. I know how Engels would answer (from Dialectics of Nature)... Kropotkin was not a dialectical materialist, but I do think his contribution to natural history was swept up into diamat.

It's true that sociality has an evolutionary role. Caution: evolution isn't the same as teleology or providence. Increasing "depth" of hierarchy may or may not be a development to put a positive value on.
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby oldbob » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:51 am

Where there are no characteristics where is high and low?

BODHI
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby Aemilius » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:36 am

I agree, in Dharmadhatu there is no difference between Dalai Lama or any bum or beggar on the street.
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby oldbob » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:05 pm

Aemilius wrote:I agree, in Dharmadhatu there is no difference between Dalai Lama or any bum or beggar on the street.

---------------------
Dear Aemilius, all and All,

Which is why Lord Buddha, as mentioned in the famous Dzogchen texts of the Jataka tales, in previous lives, could sacrifice himself for the good of others, because from his point of view, he was offering himself to himself, or perhaps even beyond this, maybe there was not ever a question of self and other, only the natural flow / display of beyond this or that, BODHI.

I say Dzogchen text because, as an evolving follower of Dzogchen, it is my understanding that the key point (my key practice 24/7) is to be in integration with whatever arises in my continuum. So if I am considering a Jataka tale or attending to any view, in instant presence, then from the view of instant presence, whatever I am integrating with, is integrated in the Dzogchen view, whether that "integrated with" view is eternalist, nihiist, both, neither, Theravada, Mahayana, Tantrayana or Dzogchen. From the point of view of instant presence, all phenomena / views are the same. So, from the Dzogchen view I do not have the capacity to say /claim that one Buddhist, or Buddhist view, is higher / more equal, or lower / less equal, than another. It is a non-arising issue, if /as it arises.

In the 6 Vajra Verses of Dzogchen the "all good" relates to this thread, but you don't say it, it just is.

http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/cuckoos_song.htm

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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby Aemilius » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:06 am

Hi!
In the Vajracchedika, also known as the Diamond Sutra, Bhagavan Shakyamuni says that if a person offers his or her life in the morning, in the middday and again in the afternoon, as many times as there are grains af sand in the Ganges River, yet the merit gained by listening to the Diamond sutra far exceeds the merit of offering one's life in generosity !
This is said in the chapter 15. of the Diamond sutra, there are several and differing translations of it, here is the one produced by the Plum Village of Thich Nhat Hanh http://www.fodian.net/world/diamond1.html

An another sutra promises that it is far more beneficial to meditate in the solitude of the wilderness even for a brief period, than offering one's life for others innumerable times.

best wishes!
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby oldbob » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:19 pm

Aemilius wrote:Hi!
In the Vajracchedika, also known as the Diamond Sutra, Bhagavan Shakyamuni says that if a person offers his or her life in the morning, in the middday and again in the afternoon, as many times as there are grains af sand in the Ganges River, yet the merit gained by listening to the Diamond sutra far exceeds the merit of offering one's life in generosity !
This is said in the chapter 15. of the Diamond sutra, there are several and differing translations of it, here is the one produced by the Plum Village of Thich Nhat Hanh http://www.fodian.net/world/diamond1.html

An another sutra promises that it is far more beneficial to meditate in the solitude of the wilderness even for a brief period, than offering one's life for others innumerable times.

best wishes!



I stand corrected :bow: :bow: :bow: :namaste:

--- and that's why Lord Buddha taught 84,000 (means a lot of) different teachings so that there would be something for everyone.

---and I am personally in complete agreement with you. If you feed a woman a fish (or a tiger your body) you have fed her for a day. If you teach her how to fish she will never be hungry. Maybe if you help her to realize Buddha-hood then the issue of hunger / life / death is transcended. Certainly reading and studying such a peerless sutra as the Diamond Sutra grants many ordinary and supreme blessings to those most fortunate ones who learn of such a wonderful Teaching, the words of Lord Buddha himself. It is my personal strongly held belief that it is possible for those whose karma is ripened, to obtain full enlightenment, just by hearing such a precious holy sutra once. Veneration of even one word of Lord Buddha, builds relative merit and furthers our realization. Venerating the most precious Diamond Sutra builds supreme relative merit and good fortune in this life. I also have great faith in the Buddhist Master Thich Nhat Hanh and have the greatest respect and admiration for his gentle, skillful and artful way of presenting the precious Teachings of Lord Buddha.

Also, I am very happy that all Monks and Nuns, and anyone else who wants, should be seated higher than me in ceremonies, because this is respecting their Senior position in the Buddhist Community as started by Lord Buddha. I am a Buddha-seed fundamentalist of the low-seat school. I am completely content to sit on the ground. I regard all Monks and Nuns as my elder brothers and sisters in the Buddhist community and naturally show them respect and honor. Maybe in the course of many life times we have all been Monks and Nuns, so perhaps it is proper to show respect to everyone.

As to meditating in the solitude of the wilderness - this has been my dream all my life and I have the greatest respect and regard for those who abandon the householder-red-dust-of-the-world and purify the six realms through stainless contemplation in the wilderness. This is the path of Lord Buddha.

Now - as an old guy - I take my wilderness with me wherever I go, and do my best to be in contemplation with whatever arises, or does not arise, in my continuum. :smile: :heart: :smile:

May this be of use to someone.

Good fortune to all and All!
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby Lhasa » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:26 am

:good:
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Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?

Postby muni » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:22 am

Equanimity means an attitude of impartiality. If you practice loving-kindness and compassion, you will easily have a joyful attitude which will help you develop a natural balance or equanimity. You will not make arbitrary discriminations between people, or groups of people or any sentient being. Every single living being is part of our family and one of our best friends. So don't make discriminations like, "I want happiness for myself or a certain group of people, but I don't really care about what those other people have to suffer." Don't discriminate at all in this regard. Your practice of love and compassion, as well as your joyful attitude, is to be shared equally for all sentient beings, like sunlight radiating in all directions. This is equanimity.

On a deeper level, whatever we experience in this world doesn't really exist in a solid or substantial sense. It merely exists in a dreamlike way. When you naturally perceive and experience things in this manner you will not cling or hold onto any attitudes at all. Everything appears like a rainbow or the reflection of the moon in water. You unceasingly perform activities to benefit all sentient beings without any attachment. This is known as the state of great equanimity. If you start clinging to love, compassion, and joy, you become very territorial. Your understanding can't become immeasurable. It won't even become very open. The practice must be applied with an impartiality free of ego-clinging, yet continually expanding and intensifying. That is the principle goal of equanimity practice.

Buddha gave an example of this nondiscriminating attitude by saying that our impartiality must be like the disposition exhibited by a sage when distributing gifts. When siddhas give gifts to their guests, they make no discriminating judgments like, "I should give this to this person, I should give that to that person..." They just give freely and openly to all. This is a good example of equanimity. http://www.turtlehill.org/hill/south.html
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