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Past, Present & Future Illusory? - Dhamma Wheel

Past, Present & Future Illusory?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
dhammapal
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Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby dhammapal » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:23 am







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tiltbillings
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:44 am


dhammapal
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby dhammapal » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:20 am

I can’t find the exact quote, but Ven Thanissaro commented on how Vipassana teachers tell their students to aim at seeing “What Is”, as if there was a benign raw world without any intentional element.






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tiltbillings
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:30 am


dhammapal
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby dhammapal » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:39 am







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tiltbillings
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:42 am


dhammapal
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby dhammapal » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:00 am







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tiltbillings
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:09 am


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Ben
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:27 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

rowyourboat
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:45 pm

Hi Dhammapal

I think the buddha said the past is gone and the future yet to be, and not to cling to the present!

Let me have a go at trying to sift this out for you:

Lets assume that we have a very messy room- so messy that you cannot see the floor. Now the top most layer of stuff is clothes. That layer completly covers the layer of toys underneath it- unless you clear some of the clothes away. Underneath the layer to toys is a layer of books, which in turn completly covers the floorboards ... lets just say shall we!? :tongue:

In this analogy the topmost layer is sankhara/mental fabrications.
The layer underneath is sanna/identification
The layer beneath that is vedana/'feelings'
and beneath that is phassa/contact.
Even further beneath that is the arising of vinnana/consciousness and below that is the the sense base and stimuli

Now to get to the bare wood, we need to clear all the top layers...right?

Well to do that we use a strong/intense mindfulness which has a lot of samadhi in it. As far as the room analogy goes you can think of something which emits a very strong blast of air (hmm maybe a gardening analogy might have been better -too late!-so that it clears layer upon layer of stuff so that we can get to the bottom.

WE often hear the terms- 'dont be attached, dont have aversion, just watch with equanimity'- this is simply getting rid of the sankhara layer which contains attachments and aversion. It is possible to get to deeper and deeper layers as mindfulness and samadhi (concentration) grows over progressively longer periods (ie longer retreats).

I think 'bare awareness' is simply being mindful without any mental chatter ( once again -sankhra level) or perhaps even without sanna/idenitification ('just the seeing in the seeing....'). What I would say is that to get to the bare floor boards a yogi would need much more than just mindfulness. He would need samadhi-concentration-unification- which would really penetrate deeply into the phenomena at hand- like a surgeon's scalpel piercing through. Mindfulness in that scenario would be like the giant surgical theatre lights which light up everything but doesn't penetrate underneath the skin.

Ven Bikkhu Bodhi is interestingly barking up a different tree -perhaps taking the opportunity to say his bit (even though he is making a valid point - one which the neo-vipassakas would do well to listen to..)

In any case, hope that is helpful, :anjali:

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

chownah
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby chownah » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:48 pm

ONe might speculate as to the existence of a raw world but the Buddha taught that all we have is the six sense doors and their objects with which to construct the entirety of our experience (at least this is my view as to what the Buddha taught...others may have other views)....if this is the case then it is impossible to determine if a raw world exists....if you think that there is some way to prove that the raw world exists or doesn't exist then please post this method....I've been asking for it for a long time and so far no one has even offered a candidate...I think that in principle it is impossible to prove or disprove any sort of world external to our experience...if you want to read some sutta material on this search accesstoinsight sutta titles for "world"...
chownah

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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:54 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


dhammapal
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby dhammapal » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:12 am







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tiltbillings
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:27 am


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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:26 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:16 pm

So does time arise dependently Spiny ? If so in what sense is it real ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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kirk5a
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:17 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:24 am


5heaps
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby 5heaps » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:10 pm

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rowyourboat
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Re: Past, Present & Future Illusory?

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:54 pm

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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