dakini_boi wrote:ChNNR talked last night about how, according to sutra, the accumulation of merit results in the rupakaya, while the accumulation of wisdom results in the dharmakaya. But Dzogchen disputes this, since merit is relative and thus cannot "produce" buddhahood - and rupakaya is simply a qualification of dharmakaya. Given that, I thought maybe the Dzogchen view is that rupakaya doesn't necessarily depend on the existence of sentient beings (since it is a quality of lhundrub, which isn't exclusive to sentient beings).
I guess a question would be - does lhundrub automatically imply the arising of ignorance?
Is the Heart Sutra included in this? Perhaps it's not seen as a genuine Sutra. But if we do look at the Heart Sutra you can see that in it wisdom is described as coming from it's own side rather than as being conceptually fabricated or crafted. I don't think this is that much different from the Dzogchen view. Obviously there are big differences in general between these views but for wisdom to be genuine it has to come from it's own side.
Lhundrub doesn't imply ignorance is truly established because just as the Heart Sutra points out 'form is emptiness and emptiness is form'. The nature of Lhundrub is that it is unborn.
The Blessed One said:
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.