Worldly Vehicle

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Worldly Vehicle

Postby dakini_boi » Fri May 04, 2012 5:25 pm

ChNNR made a passing statement about how Dzogchen includes all paths. I'm not sure I'm totally clear on what he said, but from what I understood, he said that in Dzogchen, the 1st 3 vehicles are:

1. all worldly vehicles, including non-buddhist spiritual paths
2. hinayana (I'm assuming this means both shrevakayana & pratyekabuddhayana)
3. mahayana

Could someone confirm or correct this?
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Re: Worldly Vehicle

Postby Pero » Fri May 04, 2012 6:58 pm

I haven't listened so I can't say for sure, but maybe he was reffering to the more ancient scheme of the 9 vehicles? Which goes like what you posted, the first is the vehicle of gods and men (that is, worldly vehicles), 2nd hinayana, 3rd mahayana etc.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: Worldly Vehicle

Postby Dronma » Sat May 05, 2012 12:10 am

Rinpoche is explaining these things very often, so do not worry you'll be able to listen them again. :smile:
He is talking about the Nine Yanas according to Nyingma classification. However, other Buddhist lineages have different schema of Yanas, like Kagyu have 5 categories of classification.
For more information, please look at the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyingma#Nine_Yanas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuttarayoga_Tantra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yana_(Buddhism)

In any case, we have to be careful that Anuttarayoga and Anuyoga are not the same!

"In the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism, Anuttarayoga tantra is sometimes used as a synonym for the Mahāyoga tantra of their nine-yāna formulation, wherein six levels are articulated in two triads, the 'Outer' and 'Inner' tantras. The Outer Tantras are Kriyā, Caryā, and Yoga tantra. The Inner Tantras are Mahāyoga, Anuyoga, and Atiyoga.
In the New Schools of Tibetan Buddhism, the four categories of tantras are Kriyā tantra, Caryā tantra, Yoga tantra and Anuttarayoga tantra. A further sub-classification is sometimes made among Anuttarayoga tantras into 'Father', 'Mother', and 'Non-dual' tantras, although this latter category is the subject of some controversy".
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: Worldly Vehicle

Postby Malcolm » Sat May 05, 2012 12:15 am

dakini_boi wrote:ChNNR made a passing statement about how Dzogchen includes all paths. I'm not sure I'm totally clear on what he said, but from what I understood, he said that in Dzogchen, the 1st 3 vehicles are:

1. all worldly vehicles, including non-buddhist spiritual paths
2. hinayana (I'm assuming this means both shrevakayana & pratyekabuddhayana)
3. mahayana

Could someone confirm or correct this?


Yes, according to the sgra thal gyur, the first vehicle is called the vehicle of gods and men.

N
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Worldly Vehicle

Postby dakini_boi » Sat May 05, 2012 12:30 am

Thank you all, sounds like I got it right. Also thanks for the text reference, Namdrol.
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Re: Worldly Vehicle

Postby Bhusuku » Sat May 05, 2012 12:34 am

This division of the yanas is also found in Padmasambhava's "The Garland of Views" (man ngag lta ba'i phreng ba) where the worldly views are further subdivided into:

- phyal ba (the unreflective)
- rgyang 'phen pa (Skt. Lokayata; the materialists)
- mur thug pa (Skt. Maryada; the nihilists)
- mu stegs pa (Skt. Tirthika; the extremists)

You can read more about it in the Dalai Lama's commentary on the man ngag lta ba'i phreng ba*, or even more if you read "The Precious Vase".

* here you can also listen to the audio version of the Dalai Lama's commentary
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