Your feelings about Budai?

[Luke]

A lot of non-Buddhists whom I know think that Budai, the fat, jolly Chinese monk, was the historical Buddha. This mix-up annoys me a great deal. So much so, that I only feel irritation whenever I see a statue of Budai. It's not clear to me if Budai was a Buddhist master who actually existed or whether he is just a creation of folklore. However, since he represents some type of Buddha, I avoid saying anything bad about him.

What are your thoughts about Budai?

And maybe those of you who live/have lived in China or Japan could explain Budai's real significance to Chinese and Japanese Buddhists because I would be interested in understanding Budai correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai

[PadmaVonSamba]

Budai wants you to lighten up and not be so worried about it!



I have a friend & teacher who is a lama. He used to be the head of a monastery in Sikkim. Twice, when visiting, he has brought me small statues of this fat Buddha. he refers to him only as Maitreya. So, I have no problem with it.

Nobody knows what Sakyamuni Buddha looked like. However, most traditions have one style or another of representing the Buddha is a very dignified way, for use in temples and so forth. In the Tibetan traditions, there are very specific canonical guidelines for the formal representation of "sacred images", and about where they can be places and so forth.

But what if you want a Buddha in your garden, or one who can greet the visitors to your restaurant without making them feel like they are walking int a church? So, I think that is why this Budai fellow is so popular.

It is sometimes hard to explain to people who are not buddhists. Last year, some contractors were in my house to repair something, and one of them noticed the small Buddhist "shrine" I keep. he said to me, "I know a Vietnamese guy whose a buddhist, and every day he feeds his Buddha a bowl of fruit. What do you feed your Buddha?"

I had absolutely no idea how to answer this, only picturing Buddha as some poor wild animal locked in a cage.
Tibetan altars often have offerings symbolized by small bowls of water.

"Uhhhhmmmmm.....I give mine water" I told him.
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[Konchog1]

Last year, some contractors were in my house to repair something, and one of them noticed the small Buddhist "shrine" I keep. he said to me, "I know a Vietnamese guy whose a buddhist, and every day he feeds his Buddha a bowl of fruit. What do you feed your Buddha?"

I had absolutely no idea how to answer this, only picturing Buddha as some poor wild animal locked in a cage.
Tibetan altars often have offerings symbolized by small bowls of water.

"Uhhhhmmmmm.....I give mine water" I told him.
.
.
.

[Luke]

Budai wants you to lighten up and not be so worried about it!

You might just be right, Mr. Samba! hehe

Well, I guess the problem comes from stereotypes of fat people in the west: we tend to think that they're stupid and lazy. So I guess when people mistake Budai for Shakyamuni, it annoys me that the implication seems to be that the historical buddha was a foolish gluton, but as we all know, he was anything but this.

I have a friend & teacher who is a lama. He used to be the head of a monastery in Sikkim. Twice, when visiting, he has brought me small statues of this fat Buddha. he refers to him only as Maitreya. So, I have no problem with it.

Hmm, yes, seeing Budai as Maitreya eliminates all problems and transforms him into something very extraordinary!

I should ask my lama about this when I see him next.

But what if you want a Buddha in your garden, or one who can greet the visitors to your restaurant without making them feel like they are walking int a church? So, I think that is why this Budai fellow is so popular.

Hmm, I see what you mean...

It is sometimes hard to explain to people who are not buddhists. Last year, some contractors were in my house to repair something, and one of them noticed the small Buddhist "shrine" I keep. he said to me, "I know a Vietnamese guy whose a buddhist, and every day he feeds his Buddha a bowl of fruit. What do you feed your Buddha?"

I had absolutely no idea how to answer this, only picturing Buddha as some poor wild animal locked in a cage.
Tibetan altars often have offerings symbolized by small bowls of water.

"Uhhhhmmmmm.....I give mine water" I told him.

Hehe. Or you could have freaked him out and said something like "He got very thirsty after eating all that fruit so he told me to give him now water instead." lol

[Infinite]

I can't look at Budai without a smile emerging. The fellow is just so jolly it is hard not to get a smile at his ludicrous smile. I have found it helps when I get frustrated during meditation or anything in life just to take a look at him and have a good laugh. I always feel much better afterwards. Even when I was younger and didn't know who Budai was when I saw him it always brought a smile to my face as a child. I am pretty weird though.

[PadmaVonSamba]

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[PadmaVonSamba]

I found these a while ago while surfing the web for Buddha images. Kinda creepy, but I like them.

[Luke]

From wikipedia:
"According to Chinese history, Budai was an eccentric Chán monk (Chinese: 禅; pinyin: chán)[1] who lived in China during the Later Liang Dynasty (907–923 CE). He was a native of Fenghua, and his Buddhist name was Qieci (Chinese: 契此; pinyin: qiècǐ; literally "Promise this").[1] He was considered a man of good and loving character."

Does anyone know where I can read more biographical info about the Chinese Chan monk Budai?

Do most Buddhists scholars think that he actually existed? Is there any proof?

[Bonsai Doug]

Try doing an Internet search for "Hotei," which I believe is a preferred pronunciation.
You'll find a wealth of info on Hotei.

[Infinite]

Try doing an Internet search for "Hotei," which I believe is a preferred pronunciation.
You'll find a wealth of info on Hotei.

Hotei is just the Japanese pronunciation.

[kirtu]

A lot of non-Buddhists whom I know think that Budai, the fat, jolly Chinese monk, was the historical Buddha.

In Hawaii he is taken as a representation of Bodhidharma (although if people don't know you they'll just gloss it and call it Buddha).

Kirt

[PadmaVonSamba]

He is the Buddhist Santa Claus.

[Infinite]

He is the Buddhist Santa Claus.

Pretty much. I didn't realize people stressed this much over a fat, jolly fellow who gives vague answers and candy.

[LastLegend]

Budai is the monk who was a manifestation of Maitreya Bodhisattva.

[Luke]

Try doing an Internet search for "Hotei," which I believe is a preferred pronunciation.
You'll find a wealth of info on Hotei.

I didn't find any detailed info. All I found was a lot of short explanations of Hotei from questionable sources.

Does anyone know any teachings which some very respected Buddhist teachers gave about Hotei? You know, like Ven. Master Sheng Yen Sen, Thrangu Rinpoche, etc.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me like the most respected Buddhist teachers never talk about Hotei.

[kirtu]

Which some very respected Buddhist teachers gave about Hotei? You know, like Ven. Master Sheng Yen Sen, Thrangu Rinpoche, etc.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me like the most respected Buddhist teachers never talk about Hotei.

Hotei, Budai is common people's Buddhism. It's a tradition or more accurately a folk custom found from at least California through Japan and Chinese diaspora East Asia.

Kirt

[Luke]

Hotei, Budai is common people's Buddhism. It's a tradition or more accurately a folk custom found from at least California through Japan and Chinese diaspora East Asia.

Are you saying that there weren't any stories aobut Budai until modern times (say, the 1900s or 1800s)?

I would be very curious if the scholars around here could tell me what the earliest Buddhist text is which refers to Budai. Or when the oldest statue of him was made.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Hotei, Budai is common people's Buddhism. It's a tradition or more accurately a folk custom found from at least California through Japan and Chinese diaspora East Asia.

Are you saying that there weren't any stories aobut Budai until modern times (say, the 1900s or 1800s)?

I would be very curious if the scholars around here could tell me what the earliest Buddhist text is which refers to Budai. Or when the oldest statue of him was made.

He is one of the Buddha's 18 arhats, or origina disciples;
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/lu ... ann13.html
and is said he will return as Maitreya.

[Luke]

He is one of the Buddha's 18 arhats, or origina disciples;
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/chin/lu ... ann13.html
and is said he will return as Maitreya.

Ah, thank you very much for that link! That was the most intelligent article about Budai that I've read so far and it made me see him in a much more positive light. Now Budai reminds me that Buddhist masters don't need to have a serious demeanor.

The 16th Karmapa certainly seems to have had some Budai-like qualities when he was in certain moods.


So now I don't need to resent Budai so much and can see him as a symbol of real Buddhist qualities and not just foolishness! I should work harder to bring more joy to others.

[kirtu]

Hotei, Budai is common people's Buddhism. It's a tradition or more accurately a folk custom found from at least California through Japan and Chinese diaspora East Asia.

Are you saying that there weren't any stories aobut Budai until modern times (say, the 1900s or 1800s)?

I don't know, but he is folk Buddhism.

earliest story

Or when the oldest statue of him was made.

Me too.

Kirt