Your picture of Samantabhadra has the legs cut off. I would change it.mzaur wrote:Have you ever died?Dechen Norbu wrote: What isn't "damned starkly simple" is why you then become conscious if you happen to die. Or if you have an NDE, for instance, with your brain functions completely impaired. Namdrol provided an interesting hypothesis from the tantras. .
The brain and Dzogchen...
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
deepbluehum wrote:Thregcho and togal are inseparable. I feel this notion of a flaw, no two truths and such comes from thinking thregcho is its own path and togal is something different.Namdrol wrote:This is the flaw of tregchö.deepbluehum wrote:
The relative truth, if you know it's just relative, and knows it's an illusion, then is not avidya anymore isn't it? [Unity of two truths to the rescue!]
Yes, of course, in a real sense there is no tregchö without thogal and vice verse; but nevertheless, Longchenpa devotes many pages to criticizing tregchơ in comparison with thögal.
The "no two truths" thing comes form my master, ChNN. But also in it is stated the same in the Dzogchen tantras.
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Yes. I think the flaw comes from treating thregcho as a path. It's not so much a flaw if one wants to practice like that, of course it's beneficial. But one will not realize the true meaning of exhaustion of phenomena without togal or some other practice with special treatment of the subtle aspects of the channels and bindu.Namdrol wrote:deepbluehum wrote:Thregcho and togal are inseparable. I feel this notion of a flaw, no two truths and such comes from thinking thregcho is its own path and togal is something different.Namdrol wrote:This is the flaw of tregchö.
Yes, of course, in a real sense there is no tregchö without thogal and vice verse; but nevertheless, Longchenpa devotes many pages to criticizing tregchơ in comparison with thögal.
The "no two truths" thing comes form my master, ChNN. But also in it is stated the same in the Dzogchen tantras.
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward. I think very few people will make to the final phase. Pranayama methods are a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable and easier on the eyes.
No two truths is part of the Dzogchen direct approach, bypassing intellectual arbitration and go straight into the experience. From the standpoint of direct perception, there is only one truth. But consider the consequence...
What it implies is that even avidya is vidya, and the Kagyu masters are vindicated once again. I see all this as a loop.
Last edited by deepbluehum on Tue May 01, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.deepbluehum wrote:
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward. I think very few people will make to the final phase. Pranayama methods are a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable and easier on the eyes.
Can't say that about pranayāma.
N
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
A good argument to do both.Namdrol wrote:Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.deepbluehum wrote:
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward. I think very few people will make to the final phase. Pranayama methods are a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable and easier on the eyes.
Can't say that about pranayāma.
N
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Pranayāma is important.deepbluehum wrote:A good argument to do both.Namdrol wrote:Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.deepbluehum wrote:
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward. I think very few people will make to the final phase. Pranayama methods are a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable and easier on the eyes.
Can't say that about pranayāma.
N
- Wesley1982
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
- Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Its plausible that certain areas of the brain are "activated" or "energized" when engaged in Buddhist meditation and other practices of conscious-awareness.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Wesley1982 wrote:Its plausible that certain areas of the brain are "activated" or "energized" when engaged in Buddhist meditation and other practices of conscious-awareness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-wuOYlxMSY
- Dechen Norbu
- Posts: 3056
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Let's keep on topic fellows.
NDE's, meditation/ science and all that stuff can be discussed in the Lounge, if you want.
I for one would like to keep this discussion focused.
Thanks.
NDE's, meditation/ science and all that stuff can be discussed in the Lounge, if you want.
I for one would like to keep this discussion focused.
Thanks.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Dechen Norbu wrote: I for one would like to keep this discussion focused.
Thanks.
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Is this saying that our 'reality' is the non-recognition of the basis? And if the basis is recognized then is this a recognition of another alternative 'reality'? When it comes to recognition of the base does it make sense to talk about it as being a 'reality' that can be known?Namdrol wrote:
In a real sense, however there is neither mind no matter. Mind and matter are equally produced through non-recognition of the basis i.e. essence, nature and energy.
N
The Blessed One said:
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Why is this so?Namdrol wrote:Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.deepbluehum wrote:
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward. I think very few people will make to the final phase. Pranayama methods are a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable and easier on the eyes.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
the "duck" is easy.deepbluehum wrote:
BTW, as fascinating and l33t as togal is, it's pretty difficult, as in super difficult. The postures are awkward.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Namdrol wrote:
Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.
N
isn't it more like if one dies while at the level of first vision one will be reborn in a pure realm where one will live for 500 years practising dzogchen ?
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
What our impure vision is a result of not recognizing the basis. When we fully recognize and then integrate with the basis, then our impure vision vanishes.Andrew108 wrote:Is this saying that our 'reality' is the non-recognition of the basis? And if the basis is recognized then is this a recognition of another alternative 'reality'? When it comes to recognition of the base does it make sense to talk about it as being a 'reality' that can be known?Namdrol wrote:
In a real sense, however there is neither mind no matter. Mind and matter are equally produced through non-recognition of the basis i.e. essence, nature and energy.
N
If the basis could not be recognize, liberation would not be possible.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
That will happen only if, for some reason, you were not able to recognise the appearances of the bardo of dharmatā as being your own state.alpha wrote:Namdrol wrote:
Any effort in togal at all will gaurantee that one will attain buddhahood in the bardo.
N
isn't it more like if one dies while at the level of first vision one will be reborn in a pure realm where one will live for 500 years practising dzogchen ?
You ought to read Birth, Life and Death by ChNN.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Or is it that liberation is possible because the base cannot be recognized?If the basis could not be recognize, liberation would not be possible.
The Blessed One said:
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
No, that is not how it is taught in Dzogchen.Andrew108 wrote:Or is it that liberation is possible because the base cannot be recognized?If the basis could not be recognize, liberation would not be possible.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
So the recognition is not discriminating? More like knowing the flavor of the base?
The Blessed One said:
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.
Re: The brain and Dzogchen...
Recognition is prajñā.Andrew108 wrote:So the recognition is not discriminating? More like knowing the flavor of the base?