Is guru yoga enough?

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Kelwin
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Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Tue May 01, 2012 7:44 pm

Hi all,

Related to the Diamondway topic, yet seperately from it, I'd like to ask a question: Do you think doing practicing ngondro and guru yoga, or guru yoga alone, is enough for full realization? And I mean, practicing one of the main guru yogas (Milarepa, Karma Pakshi, Mikyo Dorje, etc) daily, and keeping the guru in your heart 24/7 best you can, while maintaining pure view, best you can. No more, no less.

The obvious answer seems yes. Yet some people may emphasize the need for doing the yogas, or tregchod/togal. Or, something else? What do you think? Not meant as a topic for strong debate, but as a genuine interest about the way some the more experienced friends look at it.

All the best,
Kelwin
'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

Josef
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Josef » Tue May 01, 2012 7:50 pm

Yes. Since Guru Yoga is the essence of all other practices, it is the key to realization.
Last edited by Josef on Tue May 01, 2012 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deepbluehum
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby deepbluehum » Tue May 01, 2012 7:54 pm

Don't leave home without it.

konchog_dardrol
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby konchog_dardrol » Tue May 01, 2012 8:04 pm

Like every once says, short answer is probably yes.

Longer answer might be different. Kyobpa Jigten Sumgon said you need all parts of the path, from cultivating renunciation and refuge, to bodhicitta, deity yoga, guru yoga, mahamudra meditation, and dedication in order to have complete realization of mahamudra (and that all of these must be cultivated in a single session). Hence the Drikung Fivefold Mahamudra.

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Tue May 01, 2012 8:05 pm

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Tue May 01, 2012 8:07 pm

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

Jinzang
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Jinzang » Tue May 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Guru yoga is a profound practice, but when asked about this I say:

Meditate on loving kindness and compassion as a prelude to bodhicitta

Do shamatha practice

Start ngondro practice, culminating in guru yoga

I have doubts that you will get very far without a stable shamatha practice, but that is my personal opinion.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!"

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Grigoris
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Grigoris » Tue May 01, 2012 9:00 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Caz
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Caz » Tue May 01, 2012 9:08 pm

There have been many practitioners who's sole practice was Guru Yoga and have achieved great results, Never abandon it never doubt it, Devote yourself to it. Guru Yoga is the most important practice within Vajrayana. Always remember your Guru at your heart and one day your minds will thoroughly intertwine. :namaste:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Tue May 01, 2012 10:16 pm

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 pm

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

zerwe
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby zerwe » Tue May 01, 2012 10:37 pm

Why can't Shamata be integrated into the practice?
Shaun :anjali:

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kirtu
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby kirtu » Tue May 01, 2012 10:55 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

deepbluehum
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby deepbluehum » Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 pm

Guru yoga is shamata and vipassana.

deepbluehum
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby deepbluehum » Tue May 01, 2012 11:01 pm

In reality, Vajrayana and Dzogchen are just guru yoga and nothing else. Any method you talk about is a guru yoga up to the method of five lights.

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heart
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby heart » Wed May 02, 2012 5:21 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Wed May 02, 2012 8:51 am

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

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Kelwin
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Kelwin » Wed May 02, 2012 8:58 am

'I will not take your feelings seriously, and neither will you' -Lama Lena

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Grigoris
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Grigoris » Wed May 02, 2012 9:34 am

Picking your nose is "a single sufficient method if one actually did get proper pointing out instructions" along with its practice! If you read the lives of the mahasiddhas you will see that their compulsive everyday activities were transformed into liberatory methods via pointing out instructions: drinking, gambling, fornicating, ruling empires, wearing a ring, etc... All these seemingly base activities became the means to liberation. So why not guru yoga?
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Stewart
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Re: Is guru yoga enough?

Postby Stewart » Wed May 02, 2012 10:07 am

The Karma Pakshi Guruyoga includes Hayagriva and Dorje Phagmo as Yidams as part of the Sadhana, as well as protectors and various Gurus.

The Mikyo Dorje Guru Yoga has Khorlo Demchog, Milarepa GY has Dorje Phagmo, Marpa GY has Hevajra.... they all include a Yidam in the Sadhana to some degree. Obviously the Guru is the central focus, as he is the embodiment of the 3 roots.

Get the authentic transmission of one of them and practice the Sadhana, they are wonderful practices, particulary Karma Pakshi IMHO.

best wishes.
s.


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