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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 592
Sönam wrote:
that it is a secondary practice that one practice depending on circumstances, JLA says that a lot of practices are necessary ... as an exemple, in the introduction of "Principes de la pureté primordiale" (on Khenpo Gangshar) he says about Dzogchen (my translation) : "The practitioner which engages in that Path must follows the following cursus of instruction", then follows a list of 9 retreats, some of them quite long, and six must be realized before to be introduced. In those retreats some concerne vajrayana practices (bskyed rim and rdzogs rim).
Sönam


Sönam,

Would you mind listing the 9 retreats JLA mentions? Also, where can I find Principes de la pureté primordiale? My French isn't perfect but I can get by.

Many thanks, C


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:09 am 
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Posts: 1999
Location: France
Clarence wrote:
Sönam wrote:
that it is a secondary practice that one practice depending on circumstances, JLA says that a lot of practices are necessary ... as an exemple, in the introduction of "Principes de la pureté primordiale" (on Khenpo Gangshar) he says about Dzogchen (my translation) : "The practitioner which engages in that Path must follows the following cursus of instruction", then follows a list of 9 retreats, some of them quite long, and six must be realized before to be introduced. In those retreats some concerne vajrayana practices (bskyed rim and rdzogs rim).
Sönam


Sönam,

Would you mind listing the 9 retreats JLA mentions? Also, where can I find Principes de la pureté primordiale? My French isn't perfect but I can get by.

Many thanks, C


It has been published by les éditions Khyung-Lung which is not on the normal market. You can ask for the catalog at khyunglungeditions@yahoo.com ... this is very private/secret. But it is a very interesting publisher, with many titles.

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 592
Thanks Sönam. Much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 483
As his girlfriend, I think I have to answer some of what follows :
alpha wrote:
It seems that quite a few people here had conections at some point with JLA.

It would seem so.

Quote:
My exchange with him was short one i cant say much about how is he as a person.

Don't know who you are so I can't say what you know of him or not.

Quote:
I know though a little bit about his stance regarding how one should approach the practice of dzoghen.

He has no personal idea about how to practice Dzogchen. He follows the tradition of Shardza Rinpoche. There is nothing "personal" there at all. Like it or not...

Quote:
But i do not think that everybody revere him in the Bon world.

Sure, this is no secret, but there are reasons for that (see below).

Quote:
I know first hand of a big row between him and shenten.

He has never been involved with Shenten Ling. He was the president of the Yundrung Bon Association (YBA) before it became Shenten Ling and he resigned because of the non-ethical behavior of people installed in the then future Shenten administration by the Khenpo of Triten Norbutsé (whose behavior was itself dramatically questioned by HH the Abbot of Menri).

Quote:
And since 2008 or 2009 he is not any more involved with shenten affairs.

As stated above, he has never been involved with Shenten Ling.

Quote:
This doesn't mean though he broke his connection with LTN.No ,not at all.

His connection with his root-master is pristine, no matter what the "translators" of Shenten Ling like to gossip about.

Quote:
There is some bad air between him and some of the residents there and this row is mainly related to the translation work he has done for them.

No, he has not done a single translation for these people. He resigned from YBA because one of the person installed by the Khenpo was stealing money from YBA and using this money for his own private business and because others were just behaving without any ethical respect for the teachings. As the president JLA fired the thief but this person was re-installed by the other members of the YBA administration. So JLA resigned. He was asked by Lopon to come to Shenten but since many people there only live by gossip, usage of intoxicants and generally spit on the 10 virtues while pretending to be highly realized Dzogchenpas, JLA humbly refused and explained why to Lopon. So your info is wrong.

Quote:
Instead he has his own little center near where he lives

Wrong again, JLA has no center (I guess he got more than fed up with the mentality of people in centers). He lives most of the time alone in retreat mode, rarely seeing anybody (including me!!!) :tantrum:

Quote:
where one of his teachers is invited to teach once a year.Is not a center per se ,it is i think someone's house.

This is about 800 km from where JLA lives and it's indeed a private house belonging to one of his friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm
Posts: 600
Location: kent
@ Mutsuk

Some of this information came from someone who in 2011 became part of the new administration of Shenten.
And you should understand that i have no beef with JLA whatsoever.In fact i admire his vast knowledge.
I think the way you write shows that you somewhat misunderstood the intention of my message.
And for your peace of mind i am not part of Shenten's clique and i never was.

_________________
AOM


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm
Posts: 483
Dear alpha,
I'm sorry my answers sounded rude, this was not intended at all. It's true that I'm fed up with people talking about JLA without knowing him and repeating things without knowing what has happened with Shenten. But I was not intending to be rude. If it sounded like this I'm sincerely sorry.

Quote:
Some of this information came from someone who in 2011 became part of the new administration of Shenten.

This someone is most apparently ill-informed.

Quote:
And you should understand that i have no beef with JLA whatsoever.In fact i admire his vast knowledge.

I do understand that, sorry again if my prose sounded rude.

Quote:
I think the way you write shows that you somewhat misunderstood the intention of my message.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was time to state things about what happened, and not about what people think has happened. I was not intentionally involving you in that matter.

Quote:
And for your peace of mind i am not part of Shenten's clique and i never was.

My mind is at peace (despite maybe my incapacities at saying things nicely in english) and I never intended to include you in that "clique" at all since I don't know you. :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
Posts: 1110
mutsuk wrote:
As his girlfriend, I think I have to answer some of what follows :
alpha wrote:
It seems that quite a few people here had conections at some point with JLA.

It would seem so.

Quote:
My exchange with him was short one i cant say much about how is he as a person.

Don't know who you are so I can't say what you know of him or not.

Quote:
I know though a little bit about his stance regarding how one should approach the practice of dzoghen.

He has no personal idea about how to practice Dzogchen. He follows the tradition of Shardza Rinpoche. There is nothing "personal" there at all. Like it or not...

Quote:
But i do not think that everybody revere him in the Bon world.

Sure, this is no secret, but there are reasons for that (see below).

Quote:
I know first hand of a big row between him and shenten.

He has never been involved with Shenten Ling. He was the president of the Yundrung Bon Association (YBA) before it became Shenten Ling and he resigned because of the non-ethical behavior of people installed in the then future Shenten administration by the Khenpo of Triten Norbutsé (whose behavior was itself dramatically questioned by HH the Abbot of Menri).

Quote:
And since 2008 or 2009 he is not any more involved with shenten affairs.

As stated above, he has never been involved with Shenten Ling.

Quote:
This doesn't mean though he broke his connection with LTN.No ,not at all.

His connection with his root-master is pristine, no matter what the "translators" of Shenten Ling like to gossip about.

Quote:
There is some bad air between him and some of the residents there and this row is mainly related to the translation work he has done for them.

No, he has not done a single translation for these people. He resigned from YBA because one of the person installed by the Khenpo was stealing money from YBA and using this money for his own private business and because others were just behaving without any ethical respect for the teachings. As the president JLA fired the thief but this person was re-installed by the other members of the YBA administration. So JLA resigned. He was asked by Lopon to come to Shenten but since many people there only live by gossip, usage of intoxicants and generally spit on the 10 virtues while pretending to be highly realized Dzogchenpas, JLA humbly refused and explained why to Lopon. So your info is wrong.

Quote:
Instead he has his own little center near where he lives

Wrong again, JLA has no center (I guess he got more than fed up with the mentality of people in centers). He lives most of the time alone in retreat mode, rarely seeing anybody (including me!!!) :tantrum:

Quote:
where one of his teachers is invited to teach once a year.Is not a center per se ,it is i think someone's house.

This is about 800 km from where JLA lives and it's indeed a private house belonging to one of his friends.



Tashi delek,

I fully agree with your statements here about JLA. :applause:
He indeed is a fan / follower of Shardza Tashi and follows the way of the wounded deer.

It is all like i am informed.

Mutsog Marro
KY

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1850
heart wrote:
In my own Sangha for example many received Rushan instructions but not very many practiced them, many where asked to do Ngondro but still not everyone did it or finished it. So people do as they please, I am sure that happens in the DC to?

Why Magnus, what ever made you think that? We, of course, do everything as we're told. :tongue:

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Sönam wrote:
Clarence wrote:
Sönam wrote:
that it is a secondary practice that one practice depending on circumstances, JLA says that a lot of practices are necessary ... as an exemple, in the introduction of "Principes de la pureté primordiale" (on Khenpo Gangshar) he says about Dzogchen (my translation) : "The practitioner which engages in that Path must follows the following cursus of instruction", then follows a list of 9 retreats, some of them quite long, and six must be realized before to be introduced. In those retreats some concerne vajrayana practices (bskyed rim and rdzogs rim).
Sönam


Sönam,

Would you mind listing the 9 retreats JLA mentions? Also, where can I find Principes de la pureté primordiale? My French isn't perfect but I can get by.

Many thanks, C


It has been published by les éditions Khyung-Lung which is not on the normal market. You can ask for the catalog at khyunglungeditions@yahoo.com ... this is very private/secret. But it is a very interesting publisher, with many titles.

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam



This is all covered in SMS training.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: France
Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam



This is all covered in SMS training.


The question was ... is it a must like JLA consideres it.

Sönam

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:02 am
Posts: 683
Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam



This is all covered in SMS training.


In SMS, one actually does the traditional ngondro?


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
dakini_boi wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam



This is all covered in SMS training.


In SMS, one actually does the traditional ngondro?


One to three weeks of each (sans prostrations).

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Pero wrote:
heart wrote:
In my own Sangha for example many received Rushan instructions but not very many practiced them, many where asked to do Ngondro but still not everyone did it or finished it. So people do as they please, I am sure that happens in the DC to?

Why Magnus, what ever made you think that? We, of course, do everything as we're told. :tongue:


Right, I stand corrected :smile:

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Sönam wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:

About retreats ...
1) Ordinary preliminaries
2) Extrordinary preliminaries
3) zhi gnas and lhag mthong ... mental quietness and higher vision.
4) bskyed rim ... developping phase on Yidam. Minimum 100 days.
5) rdzogs rim ... perfection phase with steng sgo and 'og sgo instructions
6) external and internal disjunctions of samsara-nirvana. phyi nang 'khor 'das ru shan dbye ba.
7) 3 doors. sgo gsum sbyang ba.
8) rig pa'i rtsal dbang. khregs chod.
9) more than one retreat on thod rgal.

Sönam



This is all covered in SMS training.


The question was ... is it a must like JLA consideres it.

Sönam


I guess it is, if you are following the SMS training.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
heart wrote:


Quote:
The question was ... is it a must like JLA consideres it.


I guess it is, if you are following the SMS training.

/magnus


If you ever wish to get to level II it is. But SMS is not a requirement, for example, AFAIK, Longsal and SMS are not related. SMS is for people who want to have more detailed explanation of the fine points.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Translators
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:


Quote:
The question was ... is it a must like JLA consideres it.


I guess it is, if you are following the SMS training.

/magnus


If you ever wish to get to level II it is. But SMS is not a requirement, for example, AFAIK, Longsal and SMS are not related. SMS is for people who want to have more detailed explanation of the fine points.


That is my point actually.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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