Mr. G wrote:
Son of Buddha wrote:
pure abodes and pureland are both apart of the (3 existances)The three realms of existence are: 1) The realm of the five components, 2) the realm of living beings, and 3) the realm of the environment (or land). (getting me confused on which terms im writing)
pureland and pureabodes are not apart of the (5 transmigations)hell,ghosts,animals,humans,gods pureaboeds is considered seperate from these transmigations.
in truth both pureabodes and pureland are both apart of samsarasa
The pure abodes do not equal the Pure Land. The pure abodes are still within samsara. The Pure Land is outside of the three realms (arupa, rupa & kama loka). Yes, Maitreya is in Tushita heaven. However, that is a heaven, it is not Pure Land. According to Indian cosmology, Tushita is one of the heavens of the desire realm within the saha world-realm (lokadhatu), the "realm" where we dwell. However, Sukhavati exists far beyond the saha world-realm.http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... /loka.html
Now provide your citation.
SORRY I HAVENT WROTE IN SOME TIME
MY REPLY:the pure abodes are in samsarasan and SO are the Purelands we are all in samsarasan until Buddhahood,why wouldnt you think the Pureland doesnt have (arupa,rupa,kama loka)?? put these in english then say the Pureland doesnt have these 3 things in it.
also Tushita heaven isnt a pureabode either so why are you useing it as such??
pureland and pureabodes are both a land of non retrogression
Ordinary people with afflictions cannot get to Tushita heaven. Ordinary people with afflictions can get to Sukhavati.
MY REPLY:ordinary people can get into Tushita heaven with nothing but faith MAJJHIMA NIKAYA alagaddupama sutta you get into heaven thru faith in the Buddha
the pureabodes and pureland are both eternal lands with infinite life
The lifespan of Tusita lasts 4000 heaven years, Sukhavati is limitless.
MY REPLY:again Tusita heaven isnt a pureabode so this doesnt apply to the conversation the Pureabodes are eternal and NONRETURNERS go their till they become Buddhas,they are called none returners cause they are not reborn anymore but stay in this pureabode till nirvana DIGHA NIKAYA mahaparinabbana sutta
in the pureabodes the land is pure because the inhabitants of that lands minds are pure ALL have attained the middle level of the highest grade of pureland and wait for their predictions (highest level highest grade)
That's right, for the pure abodes, they've cut off the five lower fetters: "Monks, in this Teaching that is so well proclaimed by Me and is plain, open, explicit and free of patchwork, those monks who have abandoned the five lower fetters will all be reborn spontaneously (in the Pure Abodes) and there they will pass away finally, no more returning from that world.
There are no fetters required to be cut to enter the Pure Land
MY REPLY: i never said their was any to cut did I what I said is the person in the PURE ABODE has the samne attainment as those in the higherst PURELAND
what you are doing is this you are saying my HOUSE isnt a house because I only allow red cars in my driveway while you allow ALL CARS,it doesnt matter who is allowed into my house that doesnt make it a house the fact its a house make it thus(se what i mean)
MR G as far as the larger sutra on page 65 he was describing the LAND from the ground to the heaven(sky) of the PURE ABODE if youcarfully read it this whole page is talking about the pureland of amitayus FOR HE ASKS HAVE YOU SEEN THAT LAND which is refering to the pureland this is correct THEN he goes into detail discribing the pureland or amitabha friom hte ground to the sky of the (pure abode)(refering to the pureland of amitayus). please read it in context sir
No, read it again. This is referring to the light emitted from Amitayus:At that time Ānanda saw the splendor and majesty of Amitāyus resembling
Mount Sumeru, which rises above the whole world. There was no place
that was not illuminated by the light emanating from his body of glory. The
four groups of followers of the Buddha in the assembly saw all this at the
same time. Likewise, those of the Pure Land saw everything in this world.
MY REPLY;YES YES it is refering to the light and what is the light illuminateing?? from the groud to the sky of ther PUREABODE(again the light is illuminateing the PUREABODE which is a refernce to amitayus pureland.
also i provided scripture from the pali canon as evidence for this and your response was the same response thervadans use to try and state that the mahayana canon is FAKE cause it is a "later" addition,so if all the mahayana sutras are "later" additions from ur views they must be incorrect also?? i think it funny when evidence is provided from the pali canon that refutes your position you decide to call it a later edition implying that "later"editions are somehow fake
It may have influenced the idea of the buddhakṣetra, however you are stretching it to say that Pure Abodes are equivalent to The Pure Land.
MY REPLY: sir the ONLY difference you have provided between the pureland and the pureabodes is that the pureland is easier to get into,that is it.(as far as the aspect of them being places of NON RETROGRESSION and being places where people stay till enlightenemnt,and being places that contain the (rupa,arupa,kama loka) they both are apart of(I seriously dont know why you even posted that tell me what these 3 things are then tell me the pureland doesnt have these aspects in it:)
simply said if you cannot admit the similarityies between the pureland and pureabodes as found in the pali canon to the mahayana canon
This is important...it's similar
MY REPLY:the ONLY differnce stated is the way you get into the house(pureland)as far as the lands beings the same you have not provided any evidence that says they are any different.simply said they are the same houses just one house is harder to get into(which is quite common amognst thervadan and mahayana)