Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Will » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:06 pm

Namdrol: Buddhist Philosophy and tenet systems is pretty much a dry hump. It does not lead anywhere. In the end it is merely dry intellectualization divorced from personal experience.


It certainly can be 'dry' and 'divorced from personal experience', but it need not be that way. For example, the famous bodhi experience of Je Tsongkhapa came after much pondering on a passage in a Buddhapalita(?) shastra.

This intellectual study can be useful, even essential, when it comes time to teach intellectuals. Then all that mental content can be displayed for their benefit, to keep them attracted to the buddhadharma until a deeper insight is gained.

After all, it seems too goofy to think that Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, Shantideva et al were wasting their and our time.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Indrajala » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:00 am

All that philosophy is about ultimately establishing right view (the opinions of what constitutes right view obviously differ from author to author). Often it is discerning wisdom which counteracts wrong views, challenges incorrect assumptions and enables the mind to rationally reform itself in a positive direction. For example, if you study emptiness on an intellectual level you might come to understand the lack of inherent identity in one's person and melt away the barrier between self and other, thus producing compassion.

It is a means to an end, but then so is meditation and any religious practice.
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog)
Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog)
Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog)
Dharma Depository (Site)

"Hui gives me no assistance. There is nothing that I say in which he does not delight." -Confucius
User avatar
Indrajala
 
Posts: 5863
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Nepal

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby deepbluehum » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:11 am

Just when you think something helped you, you realize it hindered you.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Will » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:44 pm

deepbluehum wrote:Just when you think something helped you, you realize it hindered you.


Or - Just when you think something hindered you, you realize it helped you.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Josef » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:51 pm

Both dry humping and Buddhist philosophy can be entertaining and they both can help you get ready for the real thing.
But, you eventually have to take your pants off and get down to business.
Josef
 
Posts: 1565
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Jikan » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:33 pm

Nangwa wrote:Both dry humping and Buddhist philosophy can be entertaining and they both can help you get ready for the real thing.
But, you eventually have to take your pants off and get down to business.


:good:
Thanks to the help of generous sponsors (most of them from DharmaWheel), I'm doing a Vajra Armor (Dorje Kotrab) self-retreat this summer. May the merit be yours!
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4985
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Adamantine » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:12 am

Nangwa wrote:Both dry humping and Buddhist philosophy can be entertaining and they both can help you get ready for the real thing.
But, you eventually have to take your pants off and get down to business.


:rolling:

Yeah, also dry humping (like Buddhist philosophy) can save one from nasty diseases. --In the case of humping-- STD's and in the case of Buddhist philosophy the diseases of -wrong views such as Nihilism or Eternalism. Of course, once you've gained some confidence that there's no diseases to be shared, you do have to get down to business! :tongue:
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
 
Posts: 2954
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby LastLegend » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:31 am

In my view, Buddhist philosophical teaching is very rich and flavorful if we can observe everything around us with it, then we will see better and understand better.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
User avatar
LastLegend
 
Posts: 2013
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby muni » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:53 am

Using the tools with skills without clinging to the tools. Since I know not much, this is easy.

At the end dry hump, not very useful to keep the boat on our back when we arrive on the grass. Or when we stop clinging to notions subject-object in certainty of nondual nature of appaerances-emptiness, we will no longer need further analysis and conceptual investigation. (Shechen teaching)
muni
 
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby shel » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:38 pm

If Buddhist philosophy is a dry hump does that mean Buddhist rituals are like fellatio?
shel
 
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby kirtu » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:56 pm

Buddhist philosophy isn't philosophy per se - it's not like we're engaging Wittgenstein for example (and he was one of the most useful philosophers). Buddhist philosophy is a description of enlightened view from various perspectives. The different perspectives means that enlightenment can be understood and actualized at different levels. This is intended to be for our realization in this lifetime.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4368
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:59 pm

kirtu wrote:Buddhist philosophy is a description of enlightened view from various perspectives.
Kirt


No, it is the scat of ancient Buddhist intellectuals trying to understand the meaning of the teachings, and in many cases, unsucessfully.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 11743
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:00 pm

No, it is the scat of ancient Buddhist intellectuals


:rolling: Well said. It's amazing how much time lends the perception of credence to words.

Formula for profundity: Take some deluded speculation, wrap it in hubris, seal it with the seal of "authority", and then hide it away for 1,200 years to be discovered by someone equally or even more deluded so they can start their own school, religion, or [cynicism](in our day) Internet Marketing Company to promote their workshops.[/cynicism]
CapNCrunch
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:53 pm

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby maybay » Tue May 01, 2012 1:33 pm

Namdrol wrote:
kirtu wrote:Buddhist philosophy is a description of enlightened view from various perspectives.
Kirt


No, it is the scat of ancient Buddhist intellectuals trying to understand the meaning of the teachings, and in many cases, unsucessfully.

According to a global swarm of post-history trolls.
Whether its the ritual of skepticism or that of cynicism - either way something makes the day.
People will know nothing and everything
Remember nothing and everything
Think nothing and everything
Do nothing and everything
- Machig Labdron
User avatar
maybay
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 01, 2012 2:32 pm

maybay wrote:According to a global swarm of post-history trolls.


Wow, in my 18 years of being on the internet and participating in internet Buddhist forums, no one has ever accused me of being a troll. First time for everything I guess.

I guess, having studied in detail tenet systems directly in Tibetan according to the presentations of many masters, and having taught Abhidharma and so on, I just don't share the starry eyed idealism some still maintain for elaborate conceptual infrastuctures.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 11743
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Will » Tue May 01, 2012 3:34 pm

Namdrol, Be more precise, yet please elaborate. Which major texts, if any, have value in stimulating growth in prajna by the student.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 01, 2012 4:35 pm

Will wrote:Namdrol, Be more precise, yet please elaborate. Which major texts, if any, have value in stimulating growth in prajna by the student.



All intellectual studies contribute to defiled prajñā, Buddhist and non-buddhist. But they do not necessarily contribute to undefiled prajñā, the realization of which after all is the point of the Dharma.

So the question should be "which texts contribute to the growth of undefiled prajñā", and the answer to that, sadly, is none of them, should one's study not be balanced with qualified practice.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 11743
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: value of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Will » Tue May 01, 2012 5:23 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Will wrote:Namdrol, Be more precise, yet please elaborate. Which major texts, if any, have value in stimulating growth in prajna by the student.



All intellectual studies contribute to defiled prajñā, Buddhist and non-buddhist. But they do not necessarily contribute to undefiled prajñā, the realization of which after all is the point of the Dharma.

So the question should be "which texts contribute to the growth of undefiled prajñā", and the answer to that, sadly, is none of them, should one's study not be balanced with qualified practice.


So you find little or no usefulness in the 3 stage prajñā of Literary, leading to Contemplative leading to Real Mark prajñā?

You argument is conflicted. If "All intellectual studies contribute to defiled prajñā" - and no texts "contribute to the growth of undefiled prajñā" then how can "qualified practice" provide a balance when there is zero weight on the other side?

Further, how can one study non-intellectually - just read, recite & pray devotedly that via osmosis understanding will arise?
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am

Re: value of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby Malcolm » Tue May 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Will wrote:
So you find little or no usefulness in the 3 stage prajñā of Literary, leading to Contemplative leading to Real Mark prajñā?


Well, your first category is misleading, śruthih means "hearing" and "listening". It does not mean studying books. To whom should we listen? A person qualified to give teachings. The prajñā that results is called "śrutamayī prajñā". Without this vital step, no amount of reading books will awakening the prajñā of the path.

Then we have the prajñā that comes from reflection, cintā-mayī prajñā. In my estimation, reading may constitute a part of this prajñā.

Then finally, you have bhāvanā-mayī prajñā, the prajñā born of practice.

But the exercise by some to become expert in the tenet systems of this or that ancient Abidharma schools, for example, or to become expert in pramāṇa, and so on, completely misses the mark of Dharma practice and realization.

I don't say these things idly. I say these things because I observe many people over the years, westerners as well as so called Geshes, Lamas, Khenpos and so on, who, while being quite expert in myriad ancient opinions about this and that fine point of Buddhist philosophy, nevertheless never succeed in integrating the meaning of the Dharma into their personal life. And so for these people, Dharma remains a religion and a culture, rather than a personal experience.

N


̄
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
User avatar
Malcolm
 
Posts: 11743
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Dry Hump of Buddhist Philosophy

Postby deepbluehum » Tue May 01, 2012 7:45 pm

Will wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:Just when you think something helped you, you realize it hindered you.


Or - Just when you think something hindered you, you realize it helped you.


Indeed.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Next

Return to Personal Experience

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 9 guests

>