Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Pero wrote:
edit: BTW Mariusz, do you know how the Kunzang Gongdu empowerment that Gangteng Rinpoche will give in France this year is related to those he gave in Poland?
The main cycle is during 2 weeks and can have intro into Rigpa. Nevertheless it is possible to do khordo rushen after one took even one-day special initiation with 4 empowerments which is like the extraction for the new ones or conservation of the cycle for ones who had the main initations. Of course before it one should to do at least 10% of ngondro. Rinpoche every time before the dzogchen retreat, like for example in retreat of trekcho in Poland this year, gives this kind of short initiation. Perhaps in France it will be the same and khordo rushen will be provided by other lama chosen for it by Rinpoche this year. These informations are not restricted. Here you can ask http://www.facebook.com/groups/102450324908/ The details of the practice, instructions, are for initatied only. Main site: http://www.yeshekhorlo.org/ .
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:34 pm

Namdrol wrote:
No, the Kunzang Gondu is a completely different cycle. Yes, of course it is related to Khandro Nyinthig, since it, like the Khandro Nyinthig is rooted in the klong gsal nyi ma bar ma rgyud.

But specifically the Khandro Khandro Nyinthig is the terma of Tulku Tsultrim Dorje. The Khandro Yantig is the supplement to this by Longchenpa. Since Peme Lingpa is considered the tulku of Longchenpa, for this reason the Kunzang Gongdu is considered to be a further supplement to teh Khandro Nyinthig -- but it is not the Khandro Nyinthig which is only two volumes long and between the Khandro Nyinthig and Yanthig, there is only one empowerment composed by Longchenpa based on teh root texts of the Khandro Nyinthig.
It is said Longchenpa during his visit in Bhutan discovered the terma but buried it again. Pema Lingpa discovered it later again. So it is not the supplement. Kunzang Gondu "is more on Khandro Nyinthig".
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:08 pm

Mariusz wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
No, the Kunzang Gondu is a completely different cycle. Yes, of course it is related to Khandro Nyinthig, since it, like the Khandro Nyinthig is rooted in the klong gsal nyi ma bar ma rgyud.

But specifically the Khandro Khandro Nyinthig is the terma of Tulku Tsultrim Dorje. The Khandro Yantig is the supplement to this by Longchenpa. Since Peme Lingpa is considered the tulku of Longchenpa, for this reason the Kunzang Gongdu is considered to be a further supplement to teh Khandro Nyinthig -- but it is not the Khandro Nyinthig which is only two volumes long and between the Khandro Nyinthig and Yanthig, there is only one empowerment composed by Longchenpa based on teh root texts of the Khandro Nyinthig.
It is said Longchenpa during his visit in Bhutan discovered the terma but buried it again. Pema Lingpa discovered it later again. So it is not the supplement. Kunzang Gondu "is more on Khandro Nyinthig".


Since Khandro Yangtig is a supplement, so is Kunzang Gondu.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:15 am

Namdrol wrote:
Mariusz wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
No, the Kunzang Gondu is a completely different cycle. Yes, of course it is related to Khandro Nyinthig, since it, like the Khandro Nyinthig is rooted in the klong gsal nyi ma bar ma rgyud.

But specifically the Khandro Khandro Nyinthig is the terma of Tulku Tsultrim Dorje. The Khandro Yantig is the supplement to this by Longchenpa. Since Peme Lingpa is considered the tulku of Longchenpa, for this reason the Kunzang Gongdu is considered to be a further supplement to teh Khandro Nyinthig -- but it is not the Khandro Nyinthig which is only two volumes long and between the Khandro Nyinthig and Yanthig, there is only one empowerment composed by Longchenpa based on teh root texts of the Khandro Nyinthig.
It is said Longchenpa during his visit in Bhutan discovered the terma but buried it again. Pema Lingpa discovered it later again. So it is not the supplement. Kunzang Gondu "is more on Khandro Nyinthig".


Since Khandro Yangtig is a supplement, so is Kunzang Gondu.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Bhusuku » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:02 am

This might be a stupid question, but is the whole transmission of the Düpa Do (i.e. the whole month) regarded as "the empowerment" of Anuyoga or will the actual empowerment just be bestowed some time during this transmission, or are the empowerments of Tse Gur Drag Ma and Lha Chen the Anuyoga-empowerment?
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Clarence » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:27 am

I am also interested what practices one can do based on this empowerment? Anyone know?
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:03 am

Bhusuku wrote:This might be a stupid question, but is the whole transmission of the Düpa Do (i.e. the whole month) regarded as "the empowerment" of Anuyoga or will the actual empowerment just be bestowed some time during this transmission, or are the empowerments of Tse Gur Drag Ma and Lha Chen the Anuyoga-empowerment?
It will be the first event and there will be other transmissions also: http://www.khordong.pl/index3.php Düpa Do, also called Do Gongpa Dupa, is the Kama lineage and the one of four main root tantras of Anuyoga, and it is extremely rare. So the other 3 root tantras seems to be also the critical empowerments one can receive. Commentary to the text is from Rigdzin Pema Trinley because asked for it the V Dalai lama. For more details ask info@khordong.pl
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:50 pm

Mariusz wrote:
Since Khandro Yangtig is a supplement, so is Kunzang Gondu.
It was not mine. Ask Rinpoche.[/quote]

Look, The Yangzab is a supplement of the Khandro Nyinthig, in some sense the Gongpa Zangthal is a supplement to the Khandro Nyinthig, etc., there are many termas that are considered to be supplements or in someway related to the KN because they are all based primarily on the klong gsal tantra and take Hayagriva and Vajrayogini Yab Yum as the main yidam of the practice.

But the Khandro Nyinthig is the first, and other termas are not the Khandro Nyinthig.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:58 pm

Namdrol wrote:Look, The Yangzab is a supplement of the Khandro Nyinthig, in some sense the Gongpa Zangthal is a supplement to the Khandro Nyinthig, etc., there are many termas that are considered to be supplements or in someway related to the KN because they are all based primarily on the klong gsal tantra and take Hayagriva and Vajrayogini Yab Yum as the main yidam of the practice.

But the Khandro Nyinthig is the first, and other termas are not the Khandro Nyinthig.
I'm not sure only about: "Khandro Nyinthig is the first, and other termas are not the Khandro Nyinthig". Since it was from dakini script of Yeshe Tsogyal. But I will ask for it when the time comes to confirm it. Nevertheless Kunzag Gongdu deals with KN as you also wrote here.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:06 pm

Mariusz wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Look, The Yangzab is a supplement of the Khandro Nyinthig, in some sense the Gongpa Zangthal is a supplement to the Khandro Nyinthig, etc., there are many termas that are considered to be supplements or in someway related to the KN because they are all based primarily on the klong gsal tantra and take Hayagriva and Vajrayogini Yab Yum as the main yidam of the practice.

But the Khandro Nyinthig is the first, and other termas are not the Khandro Nyinthig.
I'm not sure only about: "Khandro Nyinthig is the first, and other termas are not the Khandro Nyinthig". Since it was from dakini script of Yeshe Tsogyal. But I will ask for it when the time comes to confirm it. Nevertheless it deals with KN as you also wrote here.


Many termas are held to have been written down by Yeshe Tsogyal, are they all the Khandro Nyinthig? No.

The Khandro Nyinthig is a specific teaching, with a specific history, and a specific time it was supposed to have been revealed by a specific terton at a specific place. The same is true of the Kunzang Gongdu. I do not think that most people will accept that if you received the empowerment for the Khandro Nyinthig/Yangthig that you have received the empowerment for the Kunzang Gondu as well.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:08 pm

Namdrol wrote:Many termas are held to have been written down by Yeshe Tsogyal, are they all the Khandro Nyinthig? No.

The Khandro Nyinthig is a specific teaching, with a specific history, and a specific time it was supposed to have been revealed by a specific terton at a specific place. The same is true of the Kunzang Gongdu. I do not think that most people will accept that if you received the empowerment for the Khandro Nyinthig/Yangthig that you have received the empowerment for the Kunzang Gondu as well.
Is KN the nyinthig from Guru Rinpoche to Pemasel? So is Kunzang Gongdu as i know.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby ratna » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Clarence wrote:I am also interested what practices one can do based on this empowerment? Anyone know?


No less than 1,980 deities. This is the empowerment for all nine vehicles, consisting of 2440 sub-initiations (including 18 rikpai tsalwangs for Atiyoga).

R
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Clarence » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:09 pm

ratna wrote:
Clarence wrote:I am also interested what practices one can do based on this empowerment? Anyone know?


No less than 1,980 deities. This is the empowerment for all nine vehicles, consisting of 2440 sub-initiations (including 18 rikpai tsalwangs for Atiyoga).

R


Awesome Ratna. Thank you very much.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Pero » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:48 pm

Mariusz wrote:
Pero wrote:
edit: BTW Mariusz, do you know how the Kunzang Gongdu empowerment that Gangteng Rinpoche will give in France this year is related to those he gave in Poland?
The main cycle is during 2 weeks and can have intro into Rigpa. Nevertheless it is possible to do khordo rushen after one took even one-day special initiation with 4 empowerments which is like the extraction for the new ones or conservation of the cycle for ones who had the main initations. Of course before it one should to do at least 10% of ngondro. Rinpoche every time before the dzogchen retreat, like for example in retreat of trekcho in Poland this year, gives this kind of short initiation. Perhaps in France it will be the same and khordo rushen will be provided by other lama chosen for it by Rinpoche this year. These informations are not restricted. Here you can ask http://www.facebook.com/groups/102450324908/ The details of the practice, instructions, are for initatied only. Main site: http://www.yeshekhorlo.org/ .

Thanks.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Pero » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:47 pm

Damn you all, now I'm actually thinking about going to this... :D
The whole month would come at about 700 € (21 € per day with 3 meals), if I I'm not mistaken. Stay in the dormitory is free, correct Mariusz? Other rooms are from 2 to 5 € per day. Plus getting there... Not expensive for a whole month (at least if I ignore what I'd lose by not going to work for more than two weeks, otherwise, ouch..) edit: Although I suppose it will be possible to stay only for the Dupa Do transmission too? How long does it take?

Anyone from here going? Magnus?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby conebeckham » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:48 pm

So, my understanding is that the Guhyagarbha is the crucial Kama transmission for Mahayoga Tantra practice. This Dupa Do is the crucial Kama transmission for Anuyoga Tantra practice. Is there a "Kama" transmission for Ati, as well? Khandro Nyingthik, if I am not mistaken, is Terma, and Menngakde level of Ati, right?

Also, this:
No less than 1,980 deities. This is the empowerment for all nine vehicles, consisting of 2440 sub-initiations (including 18 rikpai tsalwangs for Atiyoga).

R
is interesting...if this is the crucial Anuyoga empowerment and transmission, how does it contain Atiyoga transmission, as well?
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:15 pm

Pero wrote: BTW Mariusz, do you know how the Kunzang Gongdu empowerment that Gangteng Rinpoche will give in France this year is related to those he gave in Poland?
here is new info in english what will be in Poland: http://yeshekhorlo.mahajana.net/2012/04/24/trekcho-retreat-with-hh-gangteng-tulku-rinpoche2108-04092012-in-zieleniec-duszniki-zdroj-poland/ So there will be also this one day initiation as in France in order to do next retreat of khordo rushen in Darnkow next year with Lama Chhimi chosen by Rinpoche. Rinpoche will give reatreat of Thogal in 2014 in Poland perhaps.
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Mariusz » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:41 am

conebeckham wrote:So, my understanding is that the Guhyagarbha is the crucial Kama transmission for Mahayoga Tantra practice. This Dupa Do is the crucial Kama transmission for Anuyoga Tantra practice. Is there a "Kama" transmission for Ati, as well? Khandro Nyingthik, if I am not mistaken, is Terma, and Menngakde level of Ati, right?

As for Khandro Nyinthig: Guru Rinpoche visited Bhutan many times, mainly as Dorje Drollo and buried termas. When Longchenpa was in Bhutan He installed there His Monastaries. He discovered there terma with Kunzang Gongdu with many items covered with silk but He buried it again in wall of the building of His Monastery Tharpaling. Pema Lingpa again discovered it. Second buried terma of Kunzang Gongdu was discovered by Pema Lingpa in the stone in stupa of Samye Chimphu, Tibet. Pema Lingpa found it with many historical items from the time of King Trisong Deutsen, like those of Yeshe Tsogyal, the turquise of Pemasel and items of other masters. The both termas contains the transmission of the Nyinthig from Guru Rinpoche to Pemasel which can be recognized by the reincarnation of Pemasel. More info you can find in bio of Pema Lingpa from "The Life and Revelations of Pema Lingpa" Snow Lion Publications | ISBN: 1559391944 | 2003
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Malcolm » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:38 am

conebeckham wrote:So, my understanding is that the Guhyagarbha is the crucial Kama transmission for Mahayoga Tantra practice. This Dupa Do is the crucial Kama transmission for Anuyoga Tantra practice. Is there a "Kama" transmission for Ati, as well? Khandro Nyingthik, if I am not mistaken, is Terma, and Menngakde level of Ati, right?


Most sems sde, virtually all klong sde and the Vima Nyinthig (despite the fact that it contains many termas of Chetsun Senge Wangchuck) along with the seventeen tantas are Kama.

N
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Re: Düpa Do - The Sutra which Gathers All Intentions

Postby Bhusuku » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 am

if this is the crucial Anuyoga empowerment and transmission, how does it contain Atiyoga transmission, as well?

During my search for more information on the Düpa Do I found this:
The Uses of the Dgong Pa ‘Dus Pa’i Mdo in the Development of the Rnying-Ma School of Tibetan Buddhism

I only skimmed through this text, but I think appendix V might be interesting in regards to your question.
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