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something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval - Page 9 - Dhamma Wheel

something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:21 am


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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:25 am

Alright I'll do my best, should have something sorted tomorrow.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Hoo
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Hoo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:07 pm


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Alex123
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Alex123 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:23 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:26 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:49 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:24 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Sobeh
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Sobeh » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:51 am

A lucid parsing.

:thumbsup:

Nyana
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Nyana » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:17 am


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BlackBird
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby BlackBird » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:10 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Nyana » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:11 am


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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Sobeh » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:24 am

IMO he did. I'll race you to stream-entry so we can check, what say you? :heart:

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:21 am

Jack,

Thank you for your effort. That you put a lot of work into this is obvious. Also, what is obvious (to me) that this line of thought strikes me as unnecessarily complex. While Navavira may be arguing against an idea of change taking place at constant rate for everything, requiring everything to be different from one instant to the next, which may be a teaching that may come out of later Abhidhamma texts such as the Abhidhammatthasangaha. Is that an accurate reflection of the later Abdhidhamma thought, maybe, but I’d like to see a bit more than simply asserting it is so.

Paticcasamuppada, simply, does not require a “constant flux”, and an enduring unchanged something in order to account for “continuity” makes no sense in terms of paticcasamuppada, nor does it make any sense in terms of actual practice.

Again, the Nanavira analysis, which seems to rely way too much on Western Existential philosophers, seems to still be tied up in the question of is and is not.

Let me ask: is Nanavira advocating that something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval?

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Sherab
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Sherab » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:40 am

It seems to me that Nanavira looked at changes in a manner similar to how changes are looked at in calculus. From that angle, it is not difficult to see what Ven Nanavira was driving at. Or so it seems to me.

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:07 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:07 am

Greetings Tilt,

Well, he "graduated from Cambridge University at the age of 21 years with First Class Honours in Modern Languages and in mathematics"

"Like the Buddha, he used his background education to communicate. There are many western classical quotations, aphorisms, wit and humor written to an elite familiar with writings of Huxley, Joyce, Sartre, Kierkegaard, Kafka, Nietzche and others of that genre. He uses his mathematical and analytical skills, the Laws of Thought and logic to demolish comparisons of Dhamma with quantum mechanics and with the ideas of scientists egregiously quoted by some people to offer character certificates to the Buddha."

Bits in quotation marks from: http://www.viet.net/~anson/ebud/ebdha256.htm

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 am

He also killed himself.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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retrofuturist
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:31 am


Sanghamitta
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Re: something endures unchanged for at least a certain interval

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:34 am

Ok feel free to remove Retro.
Personally I would would have great reservations about casting a suicide into the role of mentor, but there we are. I think that act removes all credibility just as if he had murdered someone else.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.


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