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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:53 am 
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I'm looking over two different versions of Gendun Drup's Quickly Evoking Awakened Activity. One is from Glenn Mullin's Meditations on the Lower Tantras and is sourced to gSung-'bum-thor-bu Collected Works vol. 6 Tashi Lhunpo Edition. The other is from Gaden for the West. Both are very similar, except for one huge difference. Mullin's is front visualization only. Gaden's is self visualization only. Everything else is the same. Calling Tara, water vase initiation, offerings, and praise (with Tara dissolving into you at the end of Mullin's version). The only difference is who it's happening to.

Which is right? Does someone perform this Sadhana? Or have a copy in Tibetan they can check? Thanks so much.

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-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:56 am 
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In Mullin's later work Selected Works of Dalai Lama I 137-40 - his translation of the Green Tara sadhana is obviously the basis for the Gaden for the West version. The book version has self-generation as a "16 year old girl" and the Gaden West drops the word "girl". Other minor differences are there, but they are based on the same Tibetan text, I would guess.

In Mullin's bibliographic note he gives "sGrol-ma-ljang-sgrub-thab-dor-bdus" as the source text.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:41 am 
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Ah thanks Will, so Mullin later corrected the translation.

But the text still says Tara dissolves into you at the end. There's no way it's a mistranslation. But, all three versions only have one visualization either front or self not both.

What the heck.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Konchog1 wrote:
I'm looking over two different versions of Gendun Drup's Quickly Evoking Awakened Activity. One is from Glenn Mullin's Meditations on the Lower Tantras and is sourced to gSung-'bum-thor-bu Collected Works vol. 6 Tashi Lhunpo Edition.


This is front visualization because it is lower tantra.

Quote:
The other is from Gaden for the West. Both are very similar, except for one huge difference. ... Gaden's is self visualization only.


This version is either Yogatantra or HYT.

Quote:
The only difference is who it's happening to.


ell in either version it's still happening to you.

The same sadhana can be practiced at different levels of tantra depending on the lama.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:49 pm 
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I am certainly no expert on the topic, but aren't there sadhanas in the lower tantras with self-gen?
One ex. is there is a White Tara practice with self-gen.

Shaun :namaste:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Konchog1 wrote:
Ah thanks Will, so Mullin later corrected the translation.

But the text still says Tara dissolves into you at the end. There's no way it's a mistranslation. But, all three versions only have one visualization either front or self not both.

What the heck.


Too lazy to find my copy of Mullin's Lower Tantras book to compare, besides you need a lama to orally answer this best.

As I read the sadhana in the Selected Works volume, Tara does not dissolve into you at the end, but much earlier. First you symbolically become the form of Tara; then you invoke Tara & other Wisdom Beings & they appear before you, next they merge with you the Symbolic Tara. Next initiatory beings begin filling you with nectar & then Amitabha appears above your head... etcetera.

At the end you are making offerings to yourself as Tara, so only a good lama can explain to you why you blend with Tara, yet still make offerings to Tara at the end.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Will wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:
Ah thanks Will, so Mullin later corrected the translation.

But the text still says Tara dissolves into you at the end. There's no way it's a mistranslation. But, all three versions only have one visualization either front or self not both.

What the heck.


Too lazy to find my copy of Mullin's Lower Tantras book to compare, besides you need a lama to orally answer this best.

As I read the sadhana in the Selected Works volume, Tara does not dissolve into you at the end, but much earlier. First you symbolically become the form of Tara; then you invoke Tara & other Wisdom Beings & they appear before you, next they merge with you the Symbolic Tara. Next initiatory beings begin filling you with nectar & then Amitabha appears above your head... etcetera.

At the end you are making offerings to yourself as Tara, so only a good lama can explain to you why you blend with Tara, yet still make offerings to Tara at the end.
Yeah, same with Lower Tantras but again it all happens to the Tara in front. After the dedication, the front merges with you.

I think Kirtu is right. There must be two versions for different classes.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:53 am 
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While unfamiliar with the sadhanas, self-generation as the deity is found in practices of all classes of tantra, and to classify a practice as lower class due to lack of self generation is not neccesarily correct reasoning.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:24 am 
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jmlee369 wrote:
While unfamiliar with the sadhanas, self-generation as the deity is found in practices of all classes of tantra, and to classify a practice as lower class due to lack of self generation is not neccesarily correct reasoning.


I always thought self-generation is for those with empowerment of the deity (Lower or Higher Tantra) and front generation is for those without any empowerments. I have heard many times that my Lama, Tsem Rinpoche has taught front generation to those without empowerment so that the person wouldn't need to be bound by vows and commitments they are not ready to take. Hence, my Lama rarely gives empowerments except in cases of life and death. He said he will only give empowerments when the students are ready for it. Hence, most of the prayers he gives out are for front generation of the deity. Therefore, front generation and self generation of the deity Tara is actually possible. Now on the topic of Tara, Tara has empowerments from Lower Tantra all the way up to Highest Yoga Tantra. There's no difference between them except in the visualisations between both methods.


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