Nasreddīn Hodja

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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:54 am

Aemilius wrote:Dhammapada is essential reading, but you have misunderstood what the Buddha says there. Buddha tried to change the meaning of the word "Brahman". He used it in the sense of an arya, i.e. a person who has in this life attained spiritual realization through his own efforts. Which is contrary to the hereditary or caste meaning of the word. If you doubt this, please consult any knowledgeable buddhist, like Ven. Sravasti Dhammika as an example!
Oh, yes, of course. The Buddha was not born into a "Hindu" family, in a "Hindu" land and he did not have "Hindu" teachers before his enlightenment... And Jesus was not a Jew.

As for your right speech admonition:
Balavagga: The Fool
translated from the Pali by Acharya Buddharakkhita
© 1996–2012

60. Long is the night to the sleepless; long is the league to the weary. Long is worldly existence to fools who know not the Sublime Truth.

61. Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool.

62. The fool worries, thinking, "I have sons, I have wealth." Indeed, when he himself is not his own, whence are sons, whence is wealth?

63. A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed.

64. Though all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he no more comprehends the Truth than a spoon tastes the flavor of the soup.

65. Though only for a moment a discerning person associates with a wise man, quickly he comprehends the Truth, just as the tongue tastes the flavor of the soup.

66. Fools of little wit are enemies unto themselves as they move about doing evil deeds, the fruits of which are bitter.

67. Ill done is that action of doing which one repents later, and the fruit of which one, weeping, reaps with tears.

68. Well done is that action of doing which one repents not later, and the fruit of which one reaps with delight and happiness.

69. So long as an evil deed has not ripened, the fool thinks it as sweet as honey. But when the evil deed ripens, the fool comes to grief.

70. Month after month a fool may eat his food with the tip of a blade of grass, but he still is not worth a sixteenth part of the those who have comprehended the Truth.

71. Truly, an evil deed committed does not immediately bear fruit, like milk that does not turn sour all at once. But smoldering, it follows the fool like fire covered by ashes.

72. To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness.

73. The fool seeks undeserved reputation, precedence among monks, authority over monasteries, and honor among householders.

74. "Let both laymen and monks think that it was done by me. In every work, great and small, let them follow me" — such is the ambition of the fool; thus his desire and pride increase.

75. One is the quest for worldly gain, and quite another is the path to Nibbana. Clearly understanding this, let not the monk, the disciple of the Buddha, be carried away by worldly acclaim, but develop detachment instead.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
Alagaddupama Sutta: The Snake Simile
translated from the Pali by Nyanaponika Thera
© 2006–2012

Thus have I heard. Once the Blessed One lived at Saavatthii, in Jeta's Grove, in Anaathapindika's monastery.

Arittha's Wrong View
2. Now on that occasion a monk called Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, had conceived this pernicious view: "There are things called 'obstructions'[1] by the Blessed One. As I understand his teaching, those things are not necessarily obstructive for one who pursues them."

3. Several monks, hearing about it, went to the monk Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, and asked him: "Is it true, friend Arittha, that you have conceived this pernicious view: "There are things called (obstructions) by the Blessed One. As I understand his teaching, those things are not necessarily obstructive for one who pursues them'?"

"Yes, indeed, friends, (I do hold that view)."

Then those monks, wishing to dissuade Arittha from that pernicious view, urged, admonished, questioned and exhorted him thus: "Do not say so, friend Arittha, do not say so! Do not misrepresent the Blessed One! It is not right to misrepresent him. Never would the Blessed One speak like that. For in many ways, indeed, has the Blessed One said of those obstructive things that they are obstructions, indeed, and that they necessarily obstruct him who pursues them. Sense desires, so he has said, bring little enjoyment and much suffering and disappointment. The perils in them are greater. Sense desires are like bare bones, has the Blessed One said; they are like a lump of flesh, like a torch of straw, like a pit of burning coals, like a dream, like borrowed goods, like a fruit-bearing tree, like a slaughter house, like a stake of swords, like a snake's head, are sense desires, has the Blessed One said.[2] They bring little enjoyment, and much suffering and disappointment. The perils in them are greater."

Yet, though the monk Arittha was thus urged, admonished, questioned and exhorted by those monks, he still clung tenaciously and obstinately to his pernicious view, saying: "There are things called 'obstructions' by the Blessed One. As I understand his teaching, those things are not necessarily obstructive for one who pursues them."

4. When those monks could not dissuade the monk Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, from his pernicious view, they went to the Blessed One, and after respectfully saluting him, they sat down at one side. Being seated they told the Blessed One (all that had happened), and they said: "Since, O Lord, we could not dissuade the monk Arittha from his pernicious view, we have now reported this matter to the Blessed One."

5. Then the Blessed One addressed a certain monk thus: "Go, O monk, and tell the monk Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, that the Master calls him." — "Yes, Lord," replied the monk. He went to the monk Arittha and spoke to him: "The Master calls you, friend Arittha." — "Yes, friend," replied Arittha and he went to meet the Blessed One. Having arrived, he saluted the Blessed One respectfully and sat down at one side. When he was seated the Blessed One addressed him thus:

"Is it true, Arittha, that you have conceived this pernicious view: 'There are things called "obstructions" by the Blessed One. As I understand his teaching those things are not necessarily obstructive for him who pursues them'?" — "Yes, indeed, Lord, I understand the teaching of the Blessed One in this way that those things called 'obstructions' by the Blessed One, are not necessarily obstructive for him who pursues them."

6. "Of whom do you know, foolish man, that I have taught to him the teaching in that manner? Did I not, foolish man, speak in many ways of those obstructive things that they are obstructions indeed, and that they necessarily obstruct him who pursues them? Sense desires, so I have said, bring little enjoyment, and much suffering and disappointment. The perils in them are greater. Sense desires are like bare bones, have I said; they are like a lump of flesh... they are like a snake's head, have I said. They bring much suffering and disappointment. The perils in them are greater. But you, O foolish man, have misrepresented us by what you personally have wrongly grasped. You have undermined your own (future) and have created much demerit. This, foolish man, will bring you much harm and suffering for a long time."[3]

7. Then the Blessed One addressed the monks thus: "What do you think, O monks: has that monk Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, produced any spark (of understanding) in this teaching and discipline?"[4] — "How should that be, Lord? Certainly not, O Lord." ...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html
It seems that calling a spade, a spade is not an instance of wrong speech.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:44 pm

drukpa kunleys donkey.jpg
drukpa kunleys donkey.jpg (163.16 KiB) Viewed 234 times
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79672413/Keit ... kpa-Kunley
Nasreddin Hodja taught his donkey to read, Drukpa Kunley taught his to chant! :twothumbsup:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Sherab Dorje
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Aemilius » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:13 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Aemilius wrote:Dhammapada is essential reading, but you have misunderstood what the Buddha says there. Buddha tried to change the meaning of the word "Brahman". He used it in the sense of an arya, i.e. a person who has in this life attained spiritual realization through his own efforts. Which is contrary to the hereditary or caste meaning of the word. If you doubt this, please consult any knowledgeable buddhist, like Ven. Sravasti Dhammika as an example!
Oh, yes, of course. The Buddha was not born into a "Hindu" family, in a "Hindu" land and he did not have "Hindu" teachers before his enlightenment... And Jesus was not a Jew.

:namaste:


You are right, as has been said here in this forum, the term "Hindu" is a recent coinage. So it is not appropriate to call the cultural values of Siddhartha's home country "Hindu".
Wikipedia however says that the word hindu is earlier than what Huseng has said, it says that the word "Hindu" was used and popularized by the arabs in 1300's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu
An enlightened person like Buddha Gautama has become free of self. This means being free of identifying Himself as a person of a particular time period, of a particular country or a particular nationality. He is a Transcendental Person, Arya Pudgala.
Buddha further says in the Udana Varga that this attitude should be applied by his disciples also. That they should cease calling themselves by their national identities, but should consider that the Sangha of Buddha's disciples is free of national and cultural identities.
svaha
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Aemilius » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:25 am

It is the case, if you know and see truly with a transcendental purified vision. Otherwise it often happens that you see the content of your own mind in an external object. This is that you see a pure golden object as a "spade".

with best wishes!
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:04 am

Aemilius wrote:You are right, as has been said here in this forum, the term "Hindu" is a recent coinage. So it is not appropriate to call the cultural values of Siddhartha's home country "Hindu".
I am aware of this. Thank you. That is the reason that, for want of a better term, I used the word Hindu with apostrophes. In Greece the designation "Hindu" (Ινδός) describes ones ethnic group/nationality whereas the term Ινδουιστής (Hinduist) denotes a follower of any of the "Indian" gods/religions: Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, etc... I imagine though that you got the point I was making.
An enlightened person like Buddha Gautama has become free of self. This means being free of identifying Himself as a person of a particular time period, of a particular country or a particular nationality. He is a Transcendental Person, Arya Pudgala.
Buddha further says in the Udana Varga that this attitude should be applied by his disciples also. That they should cease calling themselves by their national identities, but should consider that the Sangha of Buddha's disciples is free of national and cultural identities.
Yes well, even if this is the case it does not render irrelevant the fact that Shakyamuni Buddha had two "Hindu" teachers that we know of (now whether either of them was a Brahman or not...): Alara Kalama (Skr. Ārāḍa Kālāma) and Udaka Ramaputta (Skr. Udraka Rāmaputra).
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:02 pm

One day four boys approached Hodja and gave him a bagful of walnuts.
"Hodja, we can't divide these walnuts evenly among us, could you please help us?"
So Hodja asked them: "Do you want God's way of distribution or the mortal's way?"
"Gods way!" the children replied.
Hodja opened the bag and gave two handfuls of walnuts to one child, one handful to the other, two walnuts to the third child and none to the fourth.
"What kind of distribution is this?" the children asked baffled.
"Well, this is God's way." he answered. "He gives some people a lot, some people a little and nothing to others. If you had asked for the mortal's way I would have given the same amount to everybody."

hodja.jpg
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"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Sherab Dorje
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:31 am

Hodja had a yearning for a delicious bowl of soup with lots of yoghurt and mint leaves in it. As he was sitting at home thinking to himself "I wish I had a bowl of soup that I could sip" he heard somebody knocking on the courtyard door.

Hoja went out to see who it was and found the neighbours son holding an empty bowl in his hands.
"My father says 'hello' and asks if he can borrow a bowl of soup if you have some." said the boy.
Hodja smiled and said: "Well, it seems my neighbours can even smell my fantasies!"

yoghurt soup.jpg
yoghurt soup.jpg (23.22 KiB) Viewed 156 times
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
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Re: Nasreddīn Hodja

Postby Aemilius » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:15 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Aemilius wrote:You are right, as has been said here in this forum, the term "Hindu" is a recent coinage. So it is not appropriate to call the cultural values of Siddhartha's home country "Hindu".
I am aware of this. Thank you. That is the reason that, for want of a better term, I used the word Hindu with apostrophes. In Greece the designation "Hindu" (Ινδός) describes ones ethnic group/nationality whereas the term Ινδουιστής (Hinduist) denotes a follower of any of the "Indian" gods/religions: Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, etc... I imagine though that you got the point I was making.
An enlightened person like Buddha Gautama has become free of self. This means being free of identifying Himself as a person of a particular time period, of a particular country or a particular nationality. He is a Transcendental Person, Arya Pudgala.
Buddha further says in the Udana Varga that this attitude should be applied by his disciples also. That they should cease calling themselves by their national identities, but should consider that the Sangha of Buddha's disciples is free of national and cultural identities.
Yes well, even if this is the case it does not render irrelevant the fact that Shakyamuni Buddha had two "Hindu" teachers that we know of (now whether either of them was a Brahman or not...): Alara Kalama (Skr. Ārāḍa Kālāma) and Udaka Ramaputta (Skr. Udraka Rāmaputra).
:namaste:


I brushed up a little: There are six schools of orthodox (hinduism): Nyaya, Vaisesika, Samkhya, Yoga, Purva mimamsa, and Vedanta. And three outside schools: Jain, Buddha, and Carvaka (materialist). The six orthodox schools are called Astika, and three heterodox schools are called Nastika.

Not all Brahmins are hindu. In buddhist sutras there is the Brahmin Lokayata. Lokayata is a Carvaka/materialist school of thought. In modern times there are Brahmin marxists, brahmin theoretical physicists, and brahmin atheist philosophers.

Sources say that Udraka Ramaputra was a Jain hermit. Lalita Vistara Sutra says that Siddhartha met a few brahmin hermits before meeting Arada Kalama, it doesn't specify Arada Kalama's caste, and therefore he is probably a non-brahmin (and a free philosopher).
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