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Feeling - Dhamma Wheel

Feeling

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
nathan
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Feeling

Postby nathan » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:06 am

Feeling and Feelings


We often discuss many thoughts and ideas. This is helps us all to better understand and there are many things to discuss about thought and ideas when we study the truth of the Dhamma. Still, thoughts and ideas are not the whole of being and one might even question if thought is even at the center of what we are as beings.

When we enter this world the predominant quality of experience is our feeling of it. It is through feeling being, living and life that we come to think as we do about ourselves and our lives. As time goes on we think further and thought begins to seem predominant in how we live and in what we are. But is this true or is it what we think is true or is it not actually so? Hard to say. But whatever else we might say. We continue to feel and we feel in many ways before we begin to form our thinking about what we feel.

I would like to discuss, what I feel is central to my understanding of being and living and that is that it is a felt process before it is much else.

Whatever we think is true and right, it is related to what we feel about ourselves and others and our world. Without this truth it would be impossible for us to test any other truth. It has been my experience that despite all that I might learn from thinking about the Dhamma, I am left to feel the truth of it in the feeling that I do in being and becoming in this world. This is how I come to understand, not only the deeper truths of the teaching but also the very immediate and direct truths of the eightfold path. It is in this way that the teaching is confirmed and reconfirmed in every moment. When one acts in accord with the Dhamma one feels the benefits and the wholesomeness of the teachings.

I thought I would share that to begin and then turn it over to everyone else so that we can together more closely examine the teachings in these ways. There is so much to be learned. There are excellent reasons to trust our feelings and there are also excellent reasons to discover when and why we are deceived by our feelings. For us to realize this well will teach us not only the wisdom of the Dhamma but the compassion and peace that is ours to be had in keeping with it as well.

I have put together a few references with which we can begin to look at the subject of feeling and I welcome everyone to share in any ways that they feel will help open our eyes to all that we can hope to learn about all of this.

In the end, it is not what I will think about the Dhamma that will mean the most to me. When all of my efforts to follow and discipline have someday brought me to a full and lasting sanctuary I will look to see how I feel about it. I feel that I will then think, feel and see that I finally feel all right.

-----

feeling
sacetana (adj.), vedanā (f.), anubhavana (nt.), anukampā (nt.), dayā (nt.), parāmasana (nt.), paṭisaṃvedī (nt.), phusana (nt.), saññā (nt.)
feelingly sānukampaṃ (adv.)
Last edited by nathan on Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:15 am

The resources used here are:

Concise Pali-English Dictionary - A.P. Buddhadatta Mahathera
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/index.htm

English to Pali dictionary
http://www.online-languages.info/_ud2/d ... sh&l2=pali

Access to Insight.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html


vedana [vedanaa]: Feeling — pleasure (ease), pain (stress), or neither pleasure nor pain.
vedanā : [f.] pain; sensation.

ve : [particle of affirmation] indeed; truly; surely.

dāna : [nt.] gift; charity; alms; alms-giving.

I'm far from sure it is the same dana, not even sure about the ve can anyone help work out the etymology of this word?

Here are some others that may or may not be related to vedana.

list edited out-n
Last edited by nathan on Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:37 pm


Individual
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Re: Feeling

Postby Individual » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:20 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:20 am

Thank you Venerable Dhammanando. Thank you Individual. That is all very helpful. Can either of you or could anyone kindly explain what we would be speaking about when we speak of feelings in the many ways in which we commonly do in english? What are the correct pali words or terms and the best available accompanying english definitions for feeling as sensations and emotions?
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:21 pm


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:25 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Ben
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Re: Feeling

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:06 am

Hi Nathan

I agree with Ajahn that what we commonly call 'feelings' or emotions are in fact complex combinations of mental and psycho-somatic phenomena manifesting. I don't have Ajahn's encyclopaedic knowledge of the Dhamma and Pali, but my own view is conditioned by my experience of taking vedana (sensation) as my primary object since my involvement in the Dhamma began.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:13 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Ben
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Re: Feeling

Postby Ben » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:29 am

My apologies Nathan

I did see your subsequent question relating to the different awareness releases. I didn't attempt an answer because i am not so familiar with Ven. Thanissaro's terminology and I didn't want to cloud the issue by providing a transcript of Bhikkhu Bodhi's notes to the SN - which you probably already have. I too will await Ajahn's response with interest.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:41 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:59 am


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:05 pm

Thank you Venerable Dhammanando. I would appreciate some added clarification. How does the development of insight wisdom relate to these forms of awareness release as well as to the unprovoked awareness release? How do these kinds of awareness release connect to vedana and to the results of scrutinizing vedana via the progress of insight?

Is this the same kind of 'awareness of a living being as object'?
Vedana in Paticcasamuppada
http://www.vri.dhamma.org/research/90sem/vedana15.html
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:37 am


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:48 am

Excellent. Thank you Ven. Dhammanando. This makes the relationships very clear.

metta and upekkha

This sutta has a a structure which I really like.

MN 44 Culavedalla Sutta The Shorter Set of Questions-and-Answers
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"There are these five clinging-aggregates, friend Visakha: form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling as a clinging-aggregate, perception as a clinging-aggregate, fabrications as a clinging-aggregate, consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. These five clinging-aggregates are the self-identification described by the Blessed One."

Saying, "Yes, lady," Visakha the lay follower delighted & rejoiced in what Dhammadinna the nun had said. Then he asked her a further question: "'The origination of self-identification, the origination of self-identification,' it is said, lady. Which origination of self-identification is described by the Blessed One?"

"The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This, friend Visakha, is the origination of self-identification described by the Blessed One."

"'The cessation of self-identification, the cessation of self-identification,' it is said, lady. Which cessation of self-identification is described by the Blessed One?"

"The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving: This, friend Visakha, is the cessation of self-identification described by the Blessed One."
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

nathan
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:11 am

Do the four immeasurable deliverances of mind (appamāṇā cetovimutti) which have living beings as their object have any relationship to the four brahmavihāra states of mind; mettā, karuṇā, muditā, and upekkhā?
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:24 am


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:51 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Dhammanando
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Re: Feeling

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:31 am


nathan
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Re: Feeling

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:46 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}


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