What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby heart » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:06 pm

dzoki wrote:
heart wrote:
These empowerment's I am talking about are from Longchenpa. I received them as a part of the Dam Ngakdzo. They are not like ordinary empowerment's at all, but they got a mandala. I think you will have a very difficult time proving that these empowerment's are a synthesis of Mahayoga and Atiyoga. In that case the ripgpai-tsal-wang that ChNNR gives, at least the few I received, contain more Mahayoga influences. Anyway, it doesn't really matter I think, it is all theory.

/magnus


Well same goes for Nyingma Kama, except for semde wang which is more in the style of ati than anything else given these days. Longchenpa was also a part of tradition that was being handed down for some centuries already, when he lived.
If you received Yeshe Zangthal introduction from NNR, then that is purely atiyoga style.
True this is all just a theory, since in practical sense all is applied as you mentioned above. In any case my argument in the beginning was that the path of mahayoga drol lam and atiyoga mengagde are two different things. Looking back at this whole thread, it is indeed a manifestation of namtog (as are most of the other threads, he on dharmawheel :smile: ).


My personal opinion about the inner tantras is that their root is Ati and then Anu and Mahayoga as well as the many various Ati methods developed from that. Many western scholars seem to think that Anu and Ati developed from Mahayoga but that makes no sense to me. No, I haven't received the Yeshe Zangtal from ChNNR but since I am not particularly searching for a pure Ati style, it is enough for me if I actually get what I am receiving. Direct introduction, no matter the package, is always completely pure for me.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby Malcolm » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:11 pm

heart wrote:No, I haven't received the Yeshe Zangtal from ChNNR but since I am not particularly searching for a pure Ati style, it is enough for me if I actually get what I am receiving. Direct introduction, no matter the package, is always completely pure for me.


According to ChNN, the idea of a "pure Dzogchen" is a mistake. He also says we need to understand our practice in terms of the unity of the three inner tantras. Dzogchen is how we practice those three inner tantras.

N
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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby Mariusz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:29 pm

Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:No, I haven't received the Yeshe Zangtal from ChNNR but since I am not particularly searching for a pure Ati style, it is enough for me if I actually get what I am receiving. Direct introduction, no matter the package, is always completely pure for me.


According to ChNN, the idea of a "pure Dzogchen" is a mistake. He also says we need to understand our practice in terms of the unity of the three inner tantras. Dzogchen is how we practice those three inner tantras.

N
What about thogal of Dzogchen. Is it in Dzogchen only or is not? Does it mean for practice of thogal Maha and Anu Tantras are somehow necessary?
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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby Malcolm » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:17 pm

Mariusz wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:No, I haven't received the Yeshe Zangtal from ChNNR but since I am not particularly searching for a pure Ati style, it is enough for me if I actually get what I am receiving. Direct introduction, no matter the package, is always completely pure for me.


According to ChNN, the idea of a "pure Dzogchen" is a mistake. He also says we need to understand our practice in terms of the unity of the three inner tantras. Dzogchen is how we practice those three inner tantras.

N
What about thogal of Dzogchen. Is it in Dzogchen only or is not? Does it mean for practice of thogal Maha and Anu Tantras are somehow necessary?


There are thogal intimate instructions connected with both mahāyoga and anuyoga cycles. It does not mean that these cycles are necessary in order to do thogal, however.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby heart » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:54 pm

Namdrol wrote:
heart wrote:No, I haven't received the Yeshe Zangtal from ChNNR but since I am not particularly searching for a pure Ati style, it is enough for me if I actually get what I am receiving. Direct introduction, no matter the package, is always completely pure for me.


According to ChNN, the idea of a "pure Dzogchen" is a mistake. He also says we need to understand our practice in terms of the unity of the three inner tantras. Dzogchen is how we practice those three inner tantras.

N


That makes a lot of sense to me.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: What is Kagyae Initiation?! (HH DL)

Postby dorje e gabbana » Thu May 24, 2012 1:13 am

Ka Gye is a group of practices, or sometimes a single practice, combining eight yidam deities. "Ka" means word or Command, and "gye" means eight.


Yes it is correct. The Nymas consider this cycle very powerful in order to tame and control the 8 classes of powerful beeings and get rid of provocations or curses coming from them.
NNR during a teaching in Merigar, I think in 1992, complained that nowdays there there are not many practitioner interested in this cycle, because Nyma mainly practice Terma cycle like Nyntig and Tersar.
He wished that someone studied the commnentary and practised the sadhanas of this cyle that are very useful against 8 classes that are very active and angry with man.

Saludos a todos
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