Question about Zen School

User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Question about Zen School

Post by Wesley1982 »

Do you have to be invited to learn & study Zen or can you do that on your own? thanks.
Huseng
Former staff member
Posts: 6336
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Huseng »

You can do it on your own. That's why Soto Shu on their official site provides instructions with colourful illustrations:

http://www.sotozen-net.or.jp/propagation/zazentop/saho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1477
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Huifeng »

Wesley1982 wrote:Do you have to be invited to learn & study Zen or can you do that on your own? thanks.
Depends on what you mean by "Zen", perhaps.

~~ Huifeng
User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Wesley1982 »

Huifeng wrote:Depends on what you mean by "Zen", perhaps.
I "think" its the practice of meditation and mental focus of the mind & body into a spiritual balance.
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9466
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by DGA »

There are many capable teachers. Find one you can work with, practice without holding back, and you'll be on your way.
MuMun
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:17 pm
Location: Deming, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by MuMun »

For me it began with reading books. (There are lists of recommended books on this web site so I won't bother offering my own list.) Some of these books included basic instructions on how to start meditating. I tried that on my own for a while.

Eventually, I thought it would be useful to find a good community to practice with. I wasn't necessarily looking for a teacher, but some solidarity with others doing the practice including people who had been doing it for a long time. The first couple of places I visited were okay, but they didn't "click." Then I read a book by and about one particular teacher and that was sort of an "aha." I wanted to go find that guy. A week later, I was packing up and moving to be closer to this guy's center. He wasn't even there anymore -- he had gone back to Korea. But I met his older students, a good place and good people to practice with, and practiced with a teacher. I found all of this very helpful.

Practicing and learning on your own is possible. Easier, I think, for people who have established a strong practice, but anyone can do it. There are caveats to the "go it alone" strategy. It is usually hard, particularly for a beginner, to keep a consistent sitting practice going all by oneself. Another challenge is keeping all the stuff you might read, and all the ideas that pop into the consciousness, in a balanced perspective. It's easy to start believing the thoughts we make up about our experience, and a good community including good mentors help us handle that stuff clearly.

Be choosy! If it is possible where you live, visit different places, observe the people practicing there as much if not more than the teacher (if there is one). I tend to think you can tell a lot by how the students interact. Do they welcome you? Are they forthcoming about answering your questions? How does the organization raise funds? Do they charge a lot of money, do they live on donations, or what? Your gut will tell you. It's also a good idea to use Google. Check out the place, check out their teacher. Don't be satisfied with just a nice looking website. Caveat Zentor!

Best of luck. The decision to start a practice is a wonderful and momentous decision. Let us know what you find!
User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Wesley1982 »

I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.
User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1477
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Huifeng »

Wesley1982 wrote:
Huifeng wrote:Depends on what you mean by "Zen", perhaps.
I "think" its the practice of meditation and mental focus of the mind & body into a spiritual balance.
If that is what you mean by Zen in your question, then you can approach it through whatever avenue you like.

~~ Huifeng
User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Wesley1982 »

Does a Zen Master have a dojo or particular place for ritual meditation in Japanese architecture?
shel
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by shel »

Yes it's called a zendo.
User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1477
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Huifeng »

Wesley1982 wrote:Does a Zen Master have a dojo or particular place for ritual meditation in Japanese architecture?
While by using the terms "Zen Master" and "dojo", no doubt most will be thinking of a teacher from the specific Japanese Zen school tradition, practicing meditation in a specifically Zen school location called a "dojo"...

For myself, because I tend to think about the Dharma probably more through Chinese (and Sanskrit) than English, that "Zen Master" --> 禪師 is really almost any "meditation specialist", and that "dojo" --> 道場 is the term that is now given to almost any Buddhist monastery or temple, but really means the site in which one attains awakening (bodhi-maṇḍa).

Rephrasing:
Q: Does a meditation specialist have a place of awakening or particular place for ritual meditation ...?
A: Wherever one meditates, that is their place of awakening.

See Vimalakirti sutra: "The straight mind is the place of awakening. ..." etc.
《維摩詰所說經》卷1〈4 菩薩品〉:「我問:『道場者何所是?』答曰:『直心是道場...」(CBETA, T14, no. 475, p. 542, c14-p. 543, a7)

But, as is probably well known on this Forum already, my perspective on "Zen" is not the usual Western (American?) one.

~~ Huifeng
User avatar
Quiet Heart
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
Location: Bangkok Thailand

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Quiet Heart »

Wesley1982 wrote:Do you have to be invited to learn & study Zen or can you do that on your own? thanks.
:smile:
That is something that generates a lot of debate among those who "study Zen"....whatever that term means in reality.
There are some people who say you can't be a "real" Zen student without joining an organised group and having a teacher.
That's their opinion....but I respectfully disagree.
I always have, and probably always will, be doing Zen without joining anything or anyone.
That's just my nature. I will admit , however, that outside of an organized group; you need a lot of motivation and self-discipline to practice Zen...especially as in my case I don't think of my "practice" of Zen as a thing to do apart from "real life"...but instead Zen is my real life.
I wouldn't necessarily advocate that practice for everybody.
There was a British rock group called "Dire Straits".
In one of there songs called "Private Investigations", they have the line:
"This is a private investigation, not a public enquirey".
That's how I approach Zen.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
User avatar
Quiet Heart
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
Location: Bangkok Thailand

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Quiet Heart »

Wesley1982 wrote:I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.
:shrug:
If you're interested do some research on the net about Thomas Merton.
Trappist monk I believe...but I might be wrong however on that.
Well known in Zen circles...now long deceased however.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
User avatar
Wesley1982
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Location: Magga ~ Path to Liberation.

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Wesley1982 »

At some point, do you begin by "training your thoughts'"? . .So it becomes a daily function?..
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Astus »

Huifeng wrote:But, as is probably well known on this Forum already, my perspective on "Zen" is not the usual Western (American?) one.
Things get changed in translation, like the word Zen.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Megha
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:23 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Megha »

Rinzai Zen requires a lot of "hands on" training, which can't really be replicated by solitary practice. Also, any practice, no matter how sincerely applied, will inevitably be liable to "I" bias. Being naturally lop-sided we can't really see our own "blind spots", and that's why a teacher is necessary to expose them. This is often an uncomfortable experience, hence Master Hakuin's statement that “Should you desire the great tranquillity, prepare to sweat white beads.” Without a teacher we will just not be aware of these blind spots, with the end result that the training "cuts no ice".
User avatar
booker
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:08 pm
Location: UK

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by booker »

Wesley1982 wrote:I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.
http://www.emptybell.org/articles/links.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Be Buddhist or be Buddha"
User avatar
pueraeternus
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by pueraeternus »

Huifeng wrote:
But, as is probably well known on this Forum already, my perspective on "Zen" is not the usual Western (American?) one.

~~ Huifeng
We should move towards identifying Zen as strictly the Japanese tradition, and use Chan for the Chinese Chan tradition, and Soen for the Korean one. The practices are distinct enough to warrant it. I have the impression that in the academic world, this is already the case?
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher
User avatar
anjali
Former staff member
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by anjali »

Wesley1982 wrote:I do think it will be interesting to try and incorporate the art of Zen buddha into my Christian prayer life.
If you are interested in the interface between Zen and Christianity, take a look at these works by William Johnston:

The Mirror Mind: Zen-Christian Dialogue
Christian Zen: A Way of Meditation

From a brief author bio: "William Johnston, a Jesuit missionary living in Japan, has extensive knowledge both of Western spirituality and mysticism and also, through his experiences in Japan, of Eastern spirituality and mysticism, especially Zen Buddhism."
Image
User avatar
Huifeng
Posts: 1477
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Question about Zen School

Post by Huifeng »

pueraeternus wrote:
Huifeng wrote:
But, as is probably well known on this Forum already, my perspective on "Zen" is not the usual Western (American?) one.

~~ Huifeng
We should move towards identifying Zen as strictly the Japanese tradition, and use Chan for the Chinese Chan tradition, and Soen for the Korean one. The practices are distinct enough to warrant it. I have the impression that in the academic world, this is already the case?
While I always try to use "Chan" with respect to the Chinese tradition(s), and this is fairly the norm in academia, the realm of online internet forums is something else...

~~ Huifeng
Post Reply

Return to “Zen”