Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

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Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby DGA » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:45 pm


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby plwk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:22 pm


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Dodatsu » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:35 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

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Mr. G
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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Mr. G » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:23 pm

Early Chinese Pure Land Buddhists like T'an-luan, Tao-ch'o and Shan Tao did not agree with the "mind only" interpretation either. Neither did Honen.

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Astus » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:36 pm

I find that the view of a mind only Pure Land is either for non-believers who cannot accept anything beyond their current world view, or for those with faith who can also understand the connection between mind and phenomena. But in the first case, there is little meaning of calling it a Pure Land practice.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Rakz » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:04 am

From the Shinshu point of view, all self power practices including Zen are defunct practices in the last age so it wouldn't really make sense to mix Zen and Pure Land together.

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Lazy_eye » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:31 am


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Rakz » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:23 am


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby steveb1 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:22 am

Maybe it's a case of the Pure Land being both "here" (immanent) and "more than here" (transcendent) ... ?

Realized Shinjin is the Pure Land "here", in us, immanent.
Realized Buddhahood in the Pure Land is "there", in Amida, in his transcendent realm.

Maybe not too different from Jesus and Heaven. For Jesus, the Kingdom of Heaven was immanent/here; yet it was also more than here/transcendent. Thus Christians participate in the Kingdom's immanent aspect here on earth; then participate eternally in the Kingdom's transcendent aspect in Heaven.
Maybe we could say that Pure Land adherents participate in the Pure Land "here", temporally; and participate in the Pure Land "there", posthumously.

I think I grasp the gist of the geophysical/cartographical problem of the "Western" location of the Pure Land. As has been mentioned, in a thoroughly mapped and satellite-scanned world, there is no "undiscovered West". So presumably the Pure Land's "Westerness" is metaphysical rather than physical. It is the "realm" that Amida has made native to his presence and compassion. Such a realm can be real, without being physical/material. I think the Pure Land's "Westerness" only poses a problem if we identify "real" with "material" (in this case, materially geographical).

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby DGA » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:22 pm


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Dodatsu » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:30 pm

With regards to meditation done in BCA temples, well, it's actually not meditation to attain enlightenment etc, but more of a preparation to Hear the Dharma. In some sense, it's also because of the prevalent view that Buddhists MUST meditate, especially in America. In Japan, meditation is still not done.
Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

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Mr. G
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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Mr. G » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:15 pm


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Astus
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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Astus » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:10 pm

The meaning of the mind only teaching is that all phenomena are mental phenomena, thus the concepts of inside and outside are mere terms. So speaking of Pure Land being inside or outside of the mind is pointless. That's it in brief.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Rakz » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:54 pm


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Lazy_eye » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:41 am


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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Indrajala » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:42 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Indrajala » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:46 am

Last edited by Indrajala on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Indrajala » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:48 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Indrajala » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:50 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Dodatsu
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Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice

Postby Dodatsu » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:08 am

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin


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