Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

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CapNCrunch
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby CapNCrunch » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:17 pm

*Please* don't just summarily nuke Jax again. People have said things to him that were less than kind too. At the very least, if that is being considered, please keep these threads around and viewable *somewhere* so they can be a learning experience.

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Malcolm
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:25 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:26 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Anders
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Anders » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:00 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

Josef
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Josef » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:15 pm


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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:11 pm

Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

Blue Garuda
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:40 pm

And sometimes those who claim to be lamps shed little light and just get on your wick. ;)
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Sally Gross
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Sally Gross » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:28 pm

Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90

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CapNCrunch
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby CapNCrunch » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:06 pm


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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Dechen Norbu » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:45 am

Very timely and important message right there in your post Sally.
This clarification pairs with the ones wise and informed people usually make concerning the Kalama Sutra when they see it being used and abused out of its context. I'll save it for future reference, if you don't mind. :smile:

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mzaur
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby mzaur » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:37 pm

Last edited by mzaur on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mzaur
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby mzaur » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 pm


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Sönam
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Sönam » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:46 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Malcolm
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:00 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Anders
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Anders » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:12 pm

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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heart
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby heart » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:27 pm

I always found it quite confusing that ChNNR seems to equate shamata and emptiness.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:33 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Dechen Norbu » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:38 pm

Really Magnus? I never noticed that...
I never understood him to see shamatha as the experience of emptiness. Shamatha is single pointed meditation, even if we choose to do it without object. The experience of emptiness is not the concentration on anything, but remaining in the space between thoughts (of course there's calm abiding in that space, but that doesn't make shamatha and experiencing emptiness the same), that brings the insight about emptiness. How come does he conflate the two? I never saw/heard him do that, at least I never understood it that way.

Regarding Zen, I simply don't know. With few exceptions, Anders being an eminent one who clearly has a very good grasp of Buddhadharma, first year Zen students don't seem to know much of anything concerning Buddhadharma these days... what's surprising is that some 20th year western teachers don't seem to know much either!... :lol: sorry, I couldn't resist! :rolling:
More seriously though, I never quite got ChNN on Zen. It never really interested me much either, since I'm not a Zen practitioner. I read his little book about it long ago, but I don't recall very well what he states there or the correctness of it. I know there's disagreement though between his thoughts and what Zen practitioners claim, perhaps correctly.

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Malcolm
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Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:40 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Dechen Norbu
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Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Seek To Be Lamps Unto Yourselves

Postby Dechen Norbu » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:44 pm

That's how I take it. But never really noticed him equating with shamatha. Remaining in the space between thoughts is not shamatha, I believe. Shamatha (method and state) is remaining/ results from remaining focused in one object, then the inner sign of that object and so on until the state of shamatha arises. I don't see how that's the same as remaining in the space between thoughts. Does ChNN actually says this?

I heard him talk many times about the experience of emptiness being the state between thoughts. Never took him to mistake that experience for the realization of emptiness beyond extremes. I mean, he has a very vast and deep theoretical/ practical background so I'm confident he knows this issue much better than me.


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