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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:01 am 
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Garuda, primordial changelessnes... Better? Primordial means since the beginningless beginning.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:28 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
Jax wrote:
No Namdrol,"sentient beings" are just a mental construction arising within the space of the Dharmakaya, like reflections in a mirror.


How do those those mental constructions come about according to you (I am perfectly familiar with what Dzogchen texts say)? Do mental constructions merely arise from themselves without a cause, or do they have a cause?


Namdrol, I would be glad to try to help you with this. Mental constructions arise as the radiance of the ground, Zhi. They are an evolution of the Five Lights as tsal and rolpa, as an arising consciousness evolves it is bewildered by the display of the Five Lights, of which it is a part. Seeing the display as "other", subject and object are established. From this a false dichotomy arises in which all aspects of sem arise. But in fact nothing was "caused" because an "effect" never attained to the status of becoming an independently existing entity. Although a sentient being may be said to exist conventionally, no such entity can actually be found to exist upon either syllogistic analysis or through direct examination during shamatha and vipassana practice. The empty nature of mental constructions can easily be ascertained in meditative contemplation as is done in Mahamudra training. They are like all other phenomena, like transparent reflections appearing in a mirror or rainbows appearing in the sky. I know this is a tough one for you but please enquire further as needed. I am more than happy to help you with this. I recommend examining this for yourself during vipassana practice. More practice less reading...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:37 am 
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There is a peculiarly Buddhist error of reason that is quite common. I think I'll give it a name... let's call it "Shotgun Emptiness"


It is a style of argument in which one discusses the conventional world, but every time the opponent makes a statement, one simply applies emptiness to it, in an attempt to make the opponent's arguments seems irrelevant, meaningless and , well, empty. Every value judgement gets attacked as dualistic thought and so on.

The flaw in this style of argument is that it applies to everything. There is no statement (that I know of) that is not subject to such an attack. But it sounds so sophisticated that tons of people fall for it, believing a substantial argument has been made.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:49 am 
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Catmoon, you are so right! Eventually we realize all arguments, all points of view, all frames of reference and all concepts are equally empty of any inherent existence. That's the whole idea of Madhyamaka. We are left with " nothing at all" yet that doesn't prevent us from gawking in silent wonder and amazement at nature's varied and continuing, marvelous Display!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:02 am 
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Jax wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Jax wrote:
No Namdrol,"sentient beings" are just a mental construction arising within the space of the Dharmakaya, like reflections in a mirror.


How do those those mental constructions come about according to you (I am perfectly familiar with what Dzogchen texts say)? Do mental constructions merely arise from themselves without a cause, or do they have a cause?


Mental constructions arise as the radiance of the ground, Zhi. They are an evolution of the Five Lights as tsal and rolpa, as an arising consciousness evolves it is bewildered by the display of the Five Lights, of which it is a part. Seeing the display as "other", subject and object are established. From this a false dichotomy arises in which all aspects of sem arise.


So you have retreated from your assertion that there are no "sems can" i.e. possessors of sem i.e. sentient beings.

Quote:
But in fact nothing was "caused" because an "effect" never attained to the status of becoming an independently existing entity.


Independently existing entities do not require causes or conditions so your statement here is a non-sequiter.

Quote:
Although a sentient being may be said to exist conventionally...


Yes, they may. Good to see you grasp this fact.

Still, there are two things: one you have not explained how an arising consciousness evolves, nor have you gven a reason why this happens. So you have not answered the question of whether these mental constructions are independently existent entities since they arise from themselves and lack causes, or are caused entities that lack independent existence.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:31 am 
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Malcolm said: "So you have not answered the question of whether these mental constructions are independently existent entities since they arise from themselves and lack causes, or are caused entities that lack independent existence."

You moron, I explained it in exact detail. Ok, ok... You are a bit slow, I get it.
Mental constructions cannot be said to exist or not exist as they are beyond both extremes. Pay attention now: the form of mental constructions is emptiness. Never do mental constructions in their appearance achieve some status beyond their emptiness. Mental constructions have no independent existence as inherently existent entities. All formulations arise dependently.Your questions also arise dependently upon your most persistent ignorance, avidya. Your endless questions can be resolved if you would only partake in some real practice. Investigate the nature of thought and self in vipassana according to the methods of Mahamudra. I don't have time to keep explaining all this elementary stuff to you over and over again. Re-read all my posts in detail, then let's see how you are doing. I understand how frustrating it is for you, only having intellectual understanding of these topics. More practice Malcolm! And more Guru Yoga. Visualize me just above your fontanelle oozing all kinds of Amrita into your brain. Absorb it and be me. :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:49 am 
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On a completely unrelated matter, has anyone read the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder?

Really insightful stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:50 am 
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DON'T DO IT MALCOLM!..... It's a trap!...it'll turn you into a dickhead too!

But seriously Jax, your 'humble' apology to get back on here isn't worth shit now....you just come across as plain nasty.

I wonder if you are so abusive and controlling of your 'students' when they point out your flaws.

You've failed to recruit here, try Craigslist. Close the door on your way out.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:59 am 
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Samdrup, my "nastiness"? Are you kidding? Have you been reading the threads?

Let's get back to the topic threads please... Ok?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:10 am 
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Oberon: Thanks so much! I read the stuff about NPD... Wow! That described my ego perfectly! I am going to get that little pecker into therapy asap! I am so glad I am not that little self-absorbed ego! Boy if I didn't realize the emptiness of that little pecker, I'd be in for a HUGE therapy bill! Lighten up guys, relax and have some fun! The bardo will be here before you know it! When you enter the bardo one of the protectors will ask you: " during your life, did you at least have some fun?". What would you say? Better prepare now... Learn to laugh at your seriousness, that's the entry door to Dzogchen.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:18 am 
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Seriously, is this guy not clowning about because he needs some mark of grattitude? Insn't that a clinical case?

:crazy:

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:03 am 
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Jax wrote:
You moron, I explained it in exact detail. Ok, ok... You are a bit slow, I get it.


:rules:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:06 am 
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treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Jax wrote:
You moron, I explained it in exact detail. Ok, ok... You are a bit slow, I get it.


:rules:


:good: ===> :reading: ===> :ban: ===> :thumbsup: ===> :namaste:

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:22 am 
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Jax wrote:
The bardo will be here before you know it! When you enter the bardo one of the protectors will ask you: " during your life, did you at least have some fun?". What would you say? Better prepare now... Learn to laugh at your seriousness, that's the entry door to Dzogchen.
We are all in the bardo now, the bardo of birth and life.
Every afternoon I call my protectors over for beer and crisps and they ask me: "How's it going with your anger and egotistical grasping Greg?"
I answer: "Who is Greg? There is no Greg here! Anger? What anger? What f$%#^%$^ng anger? It's all empty. Perfect. Just chill. Want another beer?"
They reply (whilst sharpening their gri-gug): "Wanna call your friend Jax over? We want to have a word with him..."
;)

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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:56 am 
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Greg, those guys are crazy party animals... It's not your anger etc. It's just what's happening to no one... Caused by no one. Ati has no concept of taming anger or becoming a nice boy. More shamatha and vipassana and you will certainly realize "nothing is important" as Norbu used to say..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:09 am 
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That so called selfknowing wakefulness, how can that talk/discuss about "itself" other than being (becoming?) artificial thing proving to another thing,....or how can that other than leaving own natural "state" caught in dream state?

Discussing Dzogchen, how is this or that person arising then...
Clouds chattering about the sky are not peaceful sky- clouds in harmony (wisdoms'compassion).
No possibility to blame or praise, when nature is in harmony.

I think masters/wisdoms' compassion are only using words for welfare of all of us, to make our liberation possible, to cut through our playstation 2. They offer no other, no playstation 3.

Thank you all to point to the apprehended paths and the unapprehended.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:18 am 
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Jax wrote:
Greg, those guys are crazy party animals... It's not your anger etc. It's just what's happening to no one... Caused by no one. Ati has no concept of taming anger or becoming a nice boy. More shamatha and vipassana and you will certainly realize "nothing is important" as Norbu used to say..


But obviously, according to you previous post, Ati have a lot of opinions about who sleeping with who. Like Sönam says, your posts are very incoherent.

/magnus

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- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:19 am 
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oops, i maybe had to post in radiant mind, cannot see clear through these entangling woods. :tongue:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:21 am 
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Jax wrote:
Greg, those guys are crazy party animals... It's not your anger etc. It's just what's happening to no one... Caused by no one. Ati has no concept of taming anger or becoming a nice boy. More shamatha and vipassana and you will certainly realize "nothing is important" as Norbu used to say..
You really have no idea what you are talking about.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:39 am 
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Jax wrote:
You moron, I explained it in exact detail. Ok, ok... You are a bit slow, I get it.


Couldn't even keep it under control after being given a second chance, huh? ::sigh::

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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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