See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Ngawang Drolma
Founding Member
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:46 am


User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:53 am

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:05 am

Ride the horse in the direction its going.

~Werner Erhard

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Astus » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:49 am

m0rl0ck,

In Buddhist terms, before enlightenment there are pancopadanaskandha (five aggregates with attachment), after enlightenment pancaskandha (five aggregates). Difference is in the attachment (upadana).
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



White Lotus
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby White Lotus » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:45 pm

:namaste: actually seeing your nature in order to become buddha is complicating the issue a little. you dont even need to do that. actually you dont need to do or be anything other than what you already are.

everything is enlightened enlightenment. attachment is itslelf an aspect of tathata and is pure enlightenment. why worry about anything... its already absolutely perfect. just as it is.

the defilements are the jewels in the buddhas hair, anger being perfectly enlightened, hatred being completely pure. everything is just so. even suffering is perfectly enlightened. we seek to avoid anger and hatred in our practice because it causes suffering, nontheless, still... even suffering is perfectly enlightened, and its effect will always ultimately be beneficial.

if you wish to polish the brick, then polish it, but you should know that it is already a perfect brick.

best wishes, White Lotus.

all is good, all is well.
this pain i feel will pass.
why fight, why struggle,
just let it be... and if we
do fight and we do struggle,
it is perfectly so.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Dae Bi
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:25 am
Location: Sydney Oz

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Dae Bi » Sat May 01, 2010 1:21 am

White Lotus

....and if we
do fight and we do struggle,
it is perfectly so.

If this was true, then why is practice able to change this?
David


First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is.

White Lotus
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby White Lotus » Sat May 01, 2010 8:14 pm

in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Dae Bi
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:25 am
Location: Sydney Oz

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Dae Bi » Sat May 01, 2010 11:24 pm

Tom, I think you're intentions are right, however I think your methodology is flawed. How can one understand what enlightenment is, unless one has this experience.
David


First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is.

User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:53 am

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun May 02, 2010 1:29 pm

Ride the horse in the direction its going.

~Werner Erhard

White Lotus
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby White Lotus » Sun May 02, 2010 4:14 pm

in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Astus » Sun May 02, 2010 6:49 pm

White Lotus,

You talk a lot about enlightenment and how that is the same as not being enlightened, saying that everyone is enlightened, while at the same time they're deluded by their egos. Actually, what does all this have to do with Buddhism? Or at least, how does that philosophy make anyone a happier person?

In your evasive manner you not just don't state or deny anything exactly but it appears to be irrelevant to the whole issue raised about Zen tenets.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



White Lotus
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby White Lotus » Mon May 03, 2010 5:55 pm

:namaste: Astus, the idea i have been most interested in is the idea that everyone is liberated. though it would seem that this is unlikely in view of human cruelty. an element of egoism. it seems that bubble has burst.

thank you and thanks to Huseng for intelligent questions. now in light of these questions i will have to re-evaluate.

best wishes, White Lotus.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Ngawang Drolma
Founding Member
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon May 03, 2010 6:48 pm

Dear White Lotus,

If I may be so bold, I'd like to offer up a bit for thoughts.

It is true that according to Buddhist teachings not all sentient beings are currently enlightened. For this reason, the Buddhist path is full of study, practice, meditation, and if we're lucky some spiritual fellowship and an excellent teacher.

I know you've said you're having a bit of fun here, and that's okay. We need to have some fun and even exercise our mental facilities. But there's no way in the world you can think yourself into an enlightened state or use your intellect, no matter how gifted you may be, to transform into an enlightened being.

It's my suggestion that if you really are interested in Buddhism, you consider taking on some practice, study, and a search for a teacher (if that's something that will work for you). Depending upon the kind of Buddhism you practice a teacher may be entirely essential.

Counting breaths (in meditation) and reading some books on Buddhism is a wonderful place to start. There are many excellent Mahayana authors (or Theravada if that is a road you travel at some point). I feel 100% certain that our members here would be happy to suggest books that introduce Buddhist concepts at the very, very important elemental level. These basics absolutely can't be overlooked in my humble opinion. If we jump straight into embracing sunyata we may end up stuck in a place of mistaken bliss or "white darkness."

I wish you very good luck in your venture. I sincerely hope that you don't mind my two cents here. Your intellectual rounds are indeed interesting, but I highly doubt that they'll lead you to a place of greater peace or happiness. And that's what most people really want :)

Best wishes,
Laura

White Lotus
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby White Lotus » Tue May 04, 2010 6:11 pm

:namaste: thank you Laura for your beautiful post. full of compassion and hope for those who are struggling in the round of life and death.

what more can i say!

love, White Lotus. x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Ngawang Drolma
Founding Member
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Wed May 05, 2010 4:37 am


User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby LastLegend » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:42 pm

No, for my capacity is low. If my capacity is similar to that of Hui Neng's or his students', then I can get instant enlightened. So that's why I have to hit the Sutras and practice Pure Land. For those who think they can reach emptiness through thinking (illusion), good luck. Like for instant, when they hear of emptiness, they would imagine emptiness with no thoughts. Still stuck in forms no matter what if one uses thinking when meditation is actually to leave using thinking...but if your capacity is suitable for Chan, then go head get a teacher and practice.

Wishful thinking
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

zengammon
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:57 am
Location: Asia and California

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby zengammon » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby ground » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:23 am

"Nature of mind" ... is this a zen concept too? I thought it were a tibetan invention ...

Kind regards

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Astus » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:58 am

Nature of mind/mind nature is citta-prakrti in Sanskrit, 心性 in Chinese. The Ratnagotra/Uttaratantra shastra is the main source of the doctrine of buddha-nature and it exists both in Chinese and in Tibetan besides the Sanskrit original.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



User avatar
ground
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby ground » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:36 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?

Postby Astus » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:15 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.




Return to “Zen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests