Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:20 pm

I swear to you, dharma is the last refuge of freedom. "You must feel free," says ChNN. Don't let dharma reinforce your Groupthink. Be like Dr. Hunter S. Thompson if you like. Be a bastard if you like, a scoundrel, a rapscallion. Be a fool. Damnit. Be a reckless fool. Recognize. By any means. Learn. By Any Means. Understand. Whether it lands you in prison, in the White House or in the case of your heart bindu, see. Leave no stone unturned. Leave no question unasked, if you can. Master yourself. If you can do that, you can be a wise one. Otherwise, you will resemble them. Them. The blank faced, space starers who mimic popular people. What a horror you would become, a kind of curmudgeon, an automaton, a recorder of buzzwords with playback functionality. Dharma is the original original. Do, be what is totally original. Go now! To the original original.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:43 pm

Don't let Dharma reinforce Egothink.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7905
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:06 pm

I especially like the earplugs. The shaved sides, the even beard. Damn tough look, man. Ego is fine. Ego is no problem. Believing in it is the problem. Thinking it is real. Wanting it to matter. As long as you know it is ever-changing miasma, then you can do or say whatever. If you can see how it really is , then you can be free. Truly free. This is America. We can still be free here. We can do sex, drugs and rock'n roll dharma. Rock'n roll dharma is an American original. Wrathful energy. This is very good. The point is to be free without harming. Helping people to expand themselves. Expand yourself. "'Sangye,' because Buddha is the awakened and expanded one," Milarepa said. There are so many possibilities to manifest benefit. Of course, freedom is the main benefit. Light a fire with fire. Get free through the truly free nature. Don't rely on canons of ethics for the monastery life. Unleash yourself. Of course, be cool. This is America. Be cool, man.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Jikan » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm

deepbluehum wrote:I swear to you, dharma is the last refuge of freedom. "You must feel free," says ChNN. Don't let dharma reinforce your Groupthink. Be like Dr. Hunter S. Thompson if you like. Be a bastard if you like, a scoundrel, a rapscallion. Be a fool. Damnit. Be a reckless fool. Recognize. By any means. Learn. By Any Means. Understand. Whether it lands you in prison, in the White House or in the case of your heart bindu, see. Leave no stone unturned. Leave no question unasked, if you can. Master yourself. If you can do that, you can be a wise one. Otherwise, you will resemble them. Them. The blank faced, space starers who mimic popular people. What a horror you would become, a kind of curmudgeon, an automaton, a recorder of buzzwords with playback functionality. Dharma is the original original. Do, be what is totally original. Go now! To the original original.


I've been reflecting on related issues of late. When Norbu Rinpoche made that comment, "you must feel free," during a webcast some time ago, I put it in my notes in all-caps. I took it as encouragement to really try, to not hold back, and to not be contrived about it.
Jikan
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4290
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:19 pm

Jikan wrote:I've been reflecting on related issues of late. When Norbu Rinpoche made that comment, "you must feel free," during a webcast some time ago, I put it in my notes in all-caps. I took it as encouragement to really try, to not hold back, and to not be contrived about it.
Uncontrived is one thing, free is another. I know that at the beginning of my practice I was incredibly contrived, I could feel it and others could very easily see it. I guess it's natural with anything new that it takes a while to "loosen up". But to accuse Padmasambhava of being contrived is going a little too far. Being a bastard though neccessitates causing harm to others. Nobody is going to consider you a bastard if you don't cause them harm right? being a fool causes harm to oneself. Thinking "it's alright" when it quite obviously "is not' is harmful.

Be natural, be uncontrived, be free BUT be wise! ;)
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7905
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:24 pm

No. I want to start the lineage of Gonzo! Gonzo Buddhism. The beauty of America is that there are so many people trying to do so many crazy things. I mean we have robot drone helicopters delivering tacos, people. That's f n crazy bee hatches. There's going to be merger of man and computer soon. That's f n criznazy off the criznine my bizabies. So crazy is where I like to go. It's very free there. Why can't my present moment be like this fantasmagoria of moments. There is nothing to connect me to the past ever. This thing just goes. It wanders like a dream. Make it an interesting dream. Shuffle around through the myriads of beings. It's amazing. Like a chrysalis, the caterpillar's skin becomes a shell and the insides become imaginative cells. They are neither caterpillar nor butterfly, but can be anything. The butterfly is just one possibility. When every moment is like that, it is very crazy, but beautiful, like the butterfly. When the introduction is understood and the nature is seen, how many possibilities you figure there are? How many dimensions of possibilities? Of course secure your food and water. But, Neo, when you realize who you are, you won't have to.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby alpha » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:58 pm

Jikan wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I swear to you, dharma is the last refuge of freedom. "You must feel free," says ChNN. Don't let dharma reinforce your Groupthink. Be like Dr. Hunter S. Thompson if you like. Be a bastard if you like, a scoundrel, a rapscallion. Be a fool. Damnit. Be a reckless fool. Recognize. By any means. Learn. By Any Means. Understand. Whether it lands you in prison, in the White House or in the case of your heart bindu, see. Leave no stone unturned. Leave no question unasked, if you can. Master yourself. If you can do that, you can be a wise one. Otherwise, you will resemble them. Them. The blank faced, space starers who mimic popular people. What a horror you would become, a kind of curmudgeon, an automaton, a recorder of buzzwords with playback functionality. Dharma is the original original. Do, be what is totally original. Go now! To the original original.


I've been reflecting on related issues of late. When Norbu Rinpoche made that comment, "you must feel free," during a webcast some time ago, I put it in my notes in all-caps. I took it as encouragement to really try, to not hold back, and to not be contrived about it.


This advice is something which really amazed me and it got stuck with me ever since.
My understanding is that before doing anything else, tuns, A's....rigpa,six lokas ....traeckchod,thogal...whatever...rinpcohe invites us ,insists ,encourages us that we drop,let go, forget, any kind of inner limitation and act spontaneously without fear within a context of awareness obviously...
Because it comes down to fear.Fear is the glue which binds us to all our conceptual positions.
Another way i understand this is that rinpoche with this advice is encouraging us to behave freely and adopt an attitude like someone doing the outer rushen but obviously not to that extreme.
AOM
alpha
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm
Location: kent

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:25 pm

alpha wrote:
Jikan wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I swear to you, dharma is the last refuge of freedom. "You must feel free," says ChNN. Don't let dharma reinforce your Groupthink. Be like Dr. Hunter S. Thompson if you like. Be a bastard if you like, a scoundrel, a rapscallion. Be a fool. Damnit. Be a reckless fool. Recognize. By any means. Learn. By Any Means. Understand. Whether it lands you in prison, in the White House or in the case of your heart bindu, see. Leave no stone unturned. Leave no question unasked, if you can. Master yourself. If you can do that, you can be a wise one. Otherwise, you will resemble them. Them. The blank faced, space starers who mimic popular people. What a horror you would become, a kind of curmudgeon, an automaton, a recorder of buzzwords with playback functionality. Dharma is the original original. Do, be what is totally original. Go now! To the original original.


I've been reflecting on related issues of late. When Norbu Rinpoche made that comment, "you must feel free," during a webcast some time ago, I put it in my notes in all-caps. I took it as encouragement to really try, to not hold back, and to not be contrived about it.


This advice is something which really amazed me and it got stuck with me ever since.
My understanding is that before doing anything else, tuns, A's....rigpa,six lokas ....traeckchod,thogal...whatever...rinpcohe invites us ,insists ,encourages us that we drop,let go, forget, any kind of inner limitation and act spontaneously without fear within a context of awareness obviously...
Because it comes down to fear.Fear is the glue which binds us to all our conceptual positions.
Another way i understand this is that rinpoche with this advice is encouraging us to behave freely and adopt an attitude like someone doing the outer rushen but obviously not to that extreme.


Yes, why not approach life as if practicing outer rushen? Live exactly like rushen. What is the limiting factor? Cause and effect. If you suffer with dualistic appearances, then, of course, cause and effect is the guide. But even if negative results cause pain in the body or the consciousness, if you have direct introduction, then it is possible for you to recognize your nature in negative circumstances, and it is the two accumulations. Being free is an absolute. Either you are free or you are not. I would caution against following advice of people who tell you you can get free by following the herd. The herd's guru, view, action and meditation is very different. Opposite and contrary. Osho advised his students to "just float." Sometimes just float means some activity if sentient beings start hassling. Then, you do to quiet them down. The real nature is lhundupifying. If you can be in your primordial state, then it will grow all around and all beings and phenomena will begin to conform to it. Rigpa is the all-creating king. The Emperor. The Emperor's clothes are all phenomena continuously unfolding as bliss-waves upon the firmament of kadak.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby tobes » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:19 pm

Sounds like you want Dharma to be in accord with a distinctly American form of romanticism - the rugged individualism of Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman etc. I suppose there are precedents of this kind of convergence, with beatniks such as Ginsberg. I am not altogether unsympathetic to your cause, but be aware that you're holding two very distinct traditions to be commensurable.

:anjali:
User avatar
tobes
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:02 am

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:25 pm

I really think it is not an ism, but outer rushen. It is romantic because it is beautiful, not because a holder of an ism did isms.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby pueraeternus » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:39 am

tarot_fool.jpeg
tarot_fool.jpeg (16.44 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path I promised a lesson their bones would remember. I know a profound pattern humans deny with words even while their actions affirm it. They say they seek security and quiet, conditions they call peace. Even as they speak, they create seeds of turmoil and violence.

- Leto II, the God Emperor
User avatar
pueraeternus
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby tobes » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:06 am

deepbluehum wrote:I really think it is not an ism, but outer rushen. It is romantic because it is beautiful, not because a holder of an ism did isms.


I kind of like where you're coming from - but I think it is definitely an ism, or indeed, a number of ism's.

If you're speaking about America The Land Of The Free, and invoking the ethos of Hunter S Thompson et al.......well, you're clearly speaking within a long illustrious history - literary, philosophical, political - which privileges the capacity of the individual to choose their own kind of life, live by their own kind of values and rules etc.

Ism's my friend, of various kinds.

I don't see anything wrong with it, except being unreflective about it.

:anjali:
User avatar
tobes
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:02 am

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:07 am

Image
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10202
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:42 am

tobes wrote:
deepbluehum wrote:I really think it is not an ism, but outer rushen. It is romantic because it is beautiful, not because a holder of an ism did isms.


I kind of like where you're coming from - but I think it is definitely an ism, or indeed, a number of ism's.

If you're speaking about America The Land Of The Free, and invoking the ethos of Hunter S Thompson et al.......well, you're clearly speaking within a long illustrious history - literary, philosophical, political - which privileges the capacity of the individual to choose their own kind of life, live by their own kind of values and rules etc.

Ism's my friend, of various kinds.

I don't see anything wrong with it, except being unreflective about it.

:anjali:


The gem is lovely from many angles.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Quiet Heart » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:01 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Don't let Dharma reinforce Egothink.
:namaste:


------------------------------
:smile:
deepbluehum:
He has it right.
Freedom is a great thing, but remember that your freedom to swing your fist ends where your nieghbor's chin begins.
We are all part of an inter-dependent collective One.
Do not allow your Ego (which, by now, you should have learned is only a illusion of your mind...a wisp-of-the-will...and therefore a delusion) to control you.
Yes, live in your freedom...but as a Buddhist and (presumably) one that has reached some level of understanding...you have a heavy responsibility to that collective.
Otherwise, you will acquire a heavy Kharmic burden you will have to work out later.
If you have reached a level of understanding...others will rely on you for their knowledge.
Don't fail them.
Freedom yes, but responsibilty and clarity are the price of freedom and understanding.
It's always been that way.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
User avatar
Quiet Heart
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am
Location: Bangkok Thailand

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby conebeckham » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:07 am

I prefer to think of America as an Experiment, personally. A great experiment, and an ongoing one, to be sure.....but All that romanticism is just another deluded position....
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:35 am

Ego talk is Groupthink.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:42 am

conebeckham wrote:I prefer to think of America as an Experiment, personally. A great experiment, and an ongoing one, to be sure.....but All that romanticism is just another deluded position....


Having no vitality is so not romantic. Romance is alive. It gets the juices flowing. It is a method. Even illusions are used to generate bliss. Freedom, no stress, no hesitation, spontaneity, these are things that get the juices flowing. Let all phenomena be blissful. Don't castrate yourselves with philosophical sophistries.
deepbluehum
 
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:35 am

tobes wrote:If you're speaking about America The Land Of The Free, and invoking the ethos of Hunter S Thompson et al.......well, you're clearly speaking within a long illustrious history - literary, philosophical, political - which privileges the capacity of the individual to choose their own kind of life, live by their own kind of values and rules etc.
Not a long history at all, really bloody short actually!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7905
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Don't Let Dharma Reinforce Groupthink

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:45 am

An ancient teaching for dbh to contemplate:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7905
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Next

Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: asunthatneversets, MSNbot Media, Norwegian and 9 guests

>