buddhahood

[Iforgotthem]

I have been practicing Buddhism for 25 years now.

Ever since I started practicing, when ever people talk about becoming enlightened, i have no feeling. I have never thought to myself that i'm going to be a buddha. When ever the conversation comes up about becoming a buddha, i become disinterested. I dont want to hear it.

When i use to be in a group, people would say " I wonder what being a buddha must be like. My thinking would be, why waist your time on that, your not one so why do you care. I felt like they were acing like a school kid who would say " I wonder what it must be like being a doctor". It never made any sense to me why anyone would wonder what being a buddha is like. Why would people ever talk about becoming enlightened.

From almost the beginning, no one is going to be able to understand the Lotus sutra unless they are a buddha. I figure that im not enlightened, so why wonder what being a buddha is. To me its a waist of time to bother with all that

Yet, i can relate to chanting and changing my karma, that I know and understand and relate too.

I remember one time I hears that all these Buddhas are suppose to meet you and greet you when you become enlightened. I sat there one day and chanted and as I was chanting , thought, I dont want all these buddha meeting me when i become enlightened. I thought that maybe one , possibly two could greet me.


You may think Im being negative about this. But how can I be expected to be excited over something I dont know, I cant relate too, I cant understand

But like I said: chanting i can get excited over, I can feel happy about, I look forward too. I know as long as I can chant and change my karma, I dont ever think about becoming enlighten. Never once have I ever thought of myself becoming enlightened because all my concentration has been on chanting and changing my karma. Chanting and changing my karma is all I know, i don't know about enlightenment. I don't understand enlightenment, I cant relate, understand it.

I wonder how others react to the subject of enlightenment.

Thank you for your time.

[LastLegend]

You are good.

[ground]

I wonder how others react to the subject of enlightenment.

I don't care about speculative fantasies because I know that the only achievement of practice of buddha dharma is liberation from passions which are called "dukkha".

[catmoon]

If enlightenment is the ultimate goal, it makes sense to take a quick look at it every now and then. Sort of in the same way that when driving a car, it makes sense to take a peek through the windshield now and then.

[Iforgotthem]

The Buddha confers the prediction, and one receives it. His prediction is different for each person, because each person becomes a Buddha with his own individual name. Although they are all called Buddhas, each Buddha has his own special name, just like people. Everyone has a different name. A prediction means that one is certain to become a Buddha, beyond any doubt. Once you have got your prediction, you are certain to become a Buddha. Only the Buddha can bestow predictions, so this is the Sixth Chapter of The Dharma Flower Sutra. http://cttbusa.org/dfs6/dfs6.asp

Do you have to be around a buddha for that to happen?


I feel like when a person becomes enlighted, their going to do the same thing as they are doing now..Faith practice study and eradicating evil karma, leading other to practice.

this causes me to wonder what is the difference between being enlightened and not being enlightened. were doing the same practice, whats the difference?

[DarwidHalim]

Iforgotthem:
I feel like when a person becomes enlighted, their going to do the same thing as they are doing now..

Chogyam Trungpa said this: If you realized your buddhahood now, so what?

[Quiet Heart]

this causes me to wonder what is the difference between being enlightened and not being enlightened. were doing the same practice, whats the difference?

-------------------------
Well, I guess if I was enlightened and I could answer that question I would really be enlightened.
Since I can't that question it must mean I'm NOT enlightened.
But I can offer a small poem from my unenlightened state that goes like this:

When first I came to study, I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers.
Later, when I reached a higher level, I saw both mountains and rivers as Buddhas...each part of the same thing.
But now, after further study, I again see mountains as mountains...and rivers as rivers.
But now mountains are only mountains, and rivers are only rivers.
But they are still part of one thing,
Just THAT and only THAT.
What is it?


In another Buddhist forum someone asked the question if we (in our practice) wished to become Buddhas.
My answer was, No. I'm just trying to understand some things I want to understand.
It's still my answer.

[Iforgotthem]

Don't get attached to "anti-enlightenment" dude. It's very good to be un-attached to enlightenment, since attachment to enlightenment is based on greed and it's opposite to cultivation.

But it seems that your attached to your judgement of other people's opinion enlightenment. That sounds like a nu-neccesary baggage. It's also troublesome that it's eroding your respect for Buddhas and the achievement for wisdom.

Someone else must be bothering you, do you lack of confidence or have low self-esteem?

This is a struggling of understanding enlightenment. Im not against being enlightened. It's like saying your going to become something you dont understand. They would say " your going to become a buddha or enlightened. It would be like saying to me " your going to become something that you dont know what it is. So, in my mind, I would grasp on to my day to day practice because I was all I could understand and relate too. In my mind I would think of me practicing the way I am now in this life time and I would think that I could do this life time after lifetime because I can relate. Im going to become a buddha any way. Poison drum or no poison drum. But when your being confronted with being told your going to become something you cant understand, Its a bit hard to grasp.

Through out the years, I would go through these short spells , each time clinging to my own day to day practice. But now these spells are shorter and longer apart. I would go through the same thinking over and over each time.

I really seriously doubt if im the only one who goes through this, I believe other people go through this. Its hard to face something you have no conception of. I think that my looking at practicing lifetime after lifetime, the way Im doing now in this lifetime is my way of being able to deal with it.

[DarwidHalim]

Let's take an example when you are going to do a meditation.

Before you start doing a meditation, do you feel someone is going to meditate?

During the meditation, do you feel someone is meditating?

After the meditation, do you feel someone just finish the meditation?

If the answer is yes, during that period you are actually playing with your concept.

If the answer is no,

[Iforgotthem]

I go into deeper levels of the mind when I chant. I don't do meditation before chanting.

[Will]

What is your motive for "chanting and changing my karma"? Why do it?

Your motive is your goal, your destination, your future result.

[Iforgotthem]

I want to finish this up


I think what played into this is the fact that when people would say , your going tot become enlightened or a buddha, for some reason I would look at becoming enlighted, or I perceive of them talking about enlightenment was like as if enlightenment is a light switch. Its just there suddenly. This would contradict the reality of me changing karma. I know that when I chant to change karma, that there is n light switch there. Changing the karma is gradual and occurs over time. If becoming enlighted, to me, is consistent with the way I chant to change my karma, then enlightenment is gradual until one reaches it full, just like one gradually eradicate one karma until its finally eradicated. Now that i could understand and relate to, even though I don't know what enlightenment is. It would go along with how karma is changed, gradually. Evan over the years the karma is changing, gradually changing the person. This gradual thing makes more sense to me. But looking at enlightenment like its a light switch, where your not enlightened and then all of a sudden you are enlightened, is concept I cant relate too. But when people would speak, it would sound like their talking like its a light switch.

[Jikan]

I go into deeper levels of the mind when I chant. I don't do meditation before chanting.

Tell us a bit more about your practice. You've been at it for 25 years now, which is great. What context, what method are you using?

[Iforgotthem]

When I sit down to chant, and im chanting about something, Im able to see my karma as either black or white and some times with different shades of color. Very rarely I see other colors. Im also able to see symbolism. Some times I can figure it out what the symbolism means right away or later on in time

Im able to see dead people when I chant for dead people, but they are behind a thin while sheet, I only see their shadow upon the sheet. I’m able to tell what condition they are in as I chant for them.

Im able to chant for anyone, whether I know them or don’t know them and things come up, such as symbolism or color of karma, mostly black and white, and tell me what kind of karma they have. This does not occur all the time.

I have the ability to go back in time before this lifetime and chant for people like last mothers or fathers and while im chanting I can see things about their karma.


My method?

I don’t have a method, I have a preexisting condition. I have seven pieces

The seven pieces causes me to go into deeper levels of thought. Prior to me practicing Buddhism, I was able to go into deeper levels of thought without trying. There are many times prior to me practicing that I would go into deeper levels of thought without even trying. This means it would odit by its self.

I just have a natural ability to go into deeper levels of thought. The mental illness I have causes me to be able to do that. Its all ways been like that since I started chanting. This is why I say it’s a condition not a method.

When I sit down to chant , im able to get to get into deeper levels of thought with in 5 minutes, some times instantly

Im able to go into deeper levels of thought and go into very complicated form of thinking, like labyrinths.

Even though Im mentally ill, the mental illness allows and causes me to get into deeper level of thought. There is something in the make up of this mental illness that causes me to be able to do this. Because im able to get into deeper levels of thought, im able to do the things I have mentioned.

You can not compare me with people who use methods.

[Will]

Have you considered that your preexisting condition is the result of previous lives of using a method?

Motive is the seed - if the motive is changing black karma to white karma, then blissful times will be the result - but not buddhahood or enlightenment.

[Iforgotthem]

Have you considered that your preexisting condition is the result of previous lives of using a method?

Yes , i know this.

there is more to this than I have all ready told you. Much more

This lifetime , Im using the correct method, I know with out fail

[Will]

Here is my response to a PM question:

Black karma leads to rebirth in one of the lower realms; white karma leads to rebirth in the human or higher deva realms. But rebirth in any of these high or low realms still confines one to cyclic existence or samsara.

Buddhahood is freedom from that cycle of rebirth - among other things.

[Iforgotthem]

Please dont think, if you are, that mentally ill people are not able to observe their mind and to go deeper levels of thought. Most mentally ill people don't realize their own ability, some do, like me. I believe and have believed that my abilities came from previous lifetimes. I think I'm more accomplished now than I was then and I believe that ill be more accomplished in my next lifetime. People think that when your mentally ill your not suppose to be able to go into deeper levels of thought and be able to concentrate on one thing for long periods of time, nor be able to observe ichinen sanzen. Not true. There are plenty of them out there who are doing it.There are other mentally ill people out there who are more accomplished than I am. We come from the different worlds with poison drum relationship all ready established before we even get here. Telling people that your mentally ill is like taking pickle juice and pouring it into a glass of milk. The repulsion is instant and powerful in the mind.

[Iforgotthem]

I see what your saying. But white karma that I see is not the white karma your saying. White karma I see is slanderous karma.

black karma tells me negative effects

White karma tells me its slander or comes from slander. Its a very hard karma when it comes up. Im being told that this karma was created by slander.

The karmas i see can be from a previous lifetime.

Once I eradicate a karma, its gone. The evil or slanderous karma is gone

I see other things as well when I see these karmas.

My white and black is different from what your explaining

Im working on a karma now that had a lot of white karma in it, but that is settling down now. I can see either karma reduce when im eradicating the karma.

[Iforgotthem]

There is something else I have seen

I call it panel karma:

I believe that panel karma is immutable karma, a hardened karma. I have come across karma like this before in the past about 3 or 4 times. It appears the same way each time. When ever I come across panel karma, its like looking a panels, but these panels prevent the karma from coming up to be able to change it. So, the karma one needs to change sits back behind the panels and he panels prevent the karma from coming up. When the panels are removed then your able to bring the karma up, your able to eradicate the evil karma. But while the panels are up , you cant do that.

In the past when ever I have worked with panel karma, pertaining to the karma one is working on, which I believe is immutable karma, a soaking process has to be done. The thing I noticed in the past cases of dealing with panel karma is the fact that the amount of chanting needed to soak the karma to remove the panels is different from karma to karma that has panels and lets the karma flow so that person can eradicate the evil karma. Some times, it may be a week, or a month or several months. It depends what kind of soaking process one needs for that karma.

I have karma now that I found panels in and Im working to soak the karma so that the panels will be removed , so that the karma can flow and I can eradicate the evil karma. I had gotten in a lot of the karma all ready, but then I went to a specific aspect of the karma and there were the panels. So, now I stay with that aspect of the karma until the panels are removed and the karma starts flowing again and I can eradicate the evil karma.

In my mind, when ever I see these panels , their so distinct, that I instantly know what kind of karma it is. When I chant and Im looking at the karma, I can see the panels off to the side. When the 3rd time came around when I was chanting about what ever I was chanting about and I had seen the panels in that karma back the, I instantly knew what that meant . I knew right there what kind of karma I was dealing with.

The last time I had seen panel karma before this time was maybe 17 to 20 years ago. Yets when I was chanting about this karma and I had seen the panels, I knew right there on the spot what kind of karma I was dealing with. To me its immutable karma, which means it soaking time.


Bu then there is something else

I call this (emptiness of karma)


This emptiness of karma is completely different than other things you study and talk about regarding emptiness.

I have noticed that through out time, that when karma is really big, when ever I would go chant about tit, it would feel like there wasn’t anything there. It would be like chanting and the daimoku would go into nothing. This has happened to me a few times through out my practice. I finally woke up to realize that this is telling me that the karma is really big. This karma needs to be soaked with karma

This specific karma Im working on has the same symptoms, of the feeling nothing is there. So this tells me that the kama is really big. All I can do is keep soaking the karma so to shrink up the karma.

This karma has both the panels and the emptiness of karma feeling. These two things tell me that I will have to chant a lot to reduce this karma. His tells me that thisis a really big karma. Yet, over the time I have been chanting about tit, I can feel the karma has reduced in size.

There has been black karma and white karma that has been appearing with this karma, but not like a kkarma that flows normally where I can get to it. Usually when I chant about a karma that I can get too the black karma is solid and there, where I can see it. But this black karma is appearing like wispy clouds. The black karma appears and disappears. When I look over to my left, I see the panels over the panels and see that they are still there. It makes me wonder if the panels are stating to break up and black karma is getting through. Im not real sure.

This kind of karma is a kind of karma I have never dealt with in the fact, It seems to get better one day when I chant and then it feels like its not as good as the last time when I go chant the next time. I have never seen inconsistency like this before. Yet, even though the karma may not be consistent from day to day, in general I can tell and feel that the karma is reducing.


When I look at this karma I see two things. The panels and the emptiness. But when I go to another karma, or I chant for someone else, I see completely different things. I never see the same thing from one thing to another. Every time its different. But each time I see something, it tells me about that karma, nothing else.

By me showing you what I see with the present karma Im dealing with, I’m showing you what goes on when Im chanting about a karma. When the evil karma has been eradicated, I lose desire to chant about that and go chant about something else and start over again.


When I talk about chanting for dead people and I see them behind a thin sheet. Its like the person is standing behind a thing sheet and behind that person is a spot light that is on them. Causing only their shadow to be reflected upon the sheet. I can not see them nor heir face. But I do see their shadow upon the sheet. What happens is when I see them their in some kind of pose. When I see the pose it tells me what kind of person they were when they were alive. When I see these people like this, its very brief. Once I realize what kind of person they are, then the thought of them behind a sheet and seeing their shadow against the sheet disappears. That will occur either in the early or middle stages of chanting for them. Then I just go on chanting for them. But there are other forms of symbolism that can come up in my mind that can tell me what kind of person they were when they were alive.

There are people who practice Buddhism who are better than me.

The people who dont have the ability, Should go to a teacher. I dont know what else to say. I cant teach other people this because I get my abilities from a per-existing condition. I wouldn't know how to start at their condition. I can even imagine where to start or what i be like to start in their condition. I could wind up having unrealistic expectations with people like that.