norman wrote:Plato was discoursing on his theory of ideas and, pointing to the cups on the table before him, said while there are many cups in the world, there is only one `idea' of a cup, and this cupness precedes the existence of all particular cups.
"I can see the cup on the table," interupted Diogenes, "but I can't see the `cupness'".
"That's because you have the eyes to see the cup," said Plato, "but", tapping his head with his forefinger, "you don't have the intellect with which to comprehend `cupness'."
Diogenes walked up to the table, examined a cup and, looking inside, asked, "Is it empty?"
"Where is the `emptiness' which procedes this empty cup?" asked Diogenes.
Plato allowed himself a few moments to collect his thoughts, but Diogenes reached over and, tapping Plato's head with his finger, said "I think you will find here is the `emptiness'."
The "emptiness" is the space enclosed by the "Cupness" of the Cup.
Both the "emptiness" and the "cupness" are two aspects of the same thing/object-location/ percieved experience.
Like two sides of a coin...heads and tails...they can not be seperated from each other.Three seperate illusions, they define each other's existance. Therefore "cupness" and "emptiness" are inter-dependent.
All of them, "cupness", "emptiness", and the perception that is the "experience" of seeing them are all illusions of the one same inter-dependent entity.
In Zen terms they, all three, are "fingers pointing at the moon reflected in still water".
The pointing finger is not the reality, the relection is not the reality, the still water is not the reality.
All these apparently valid illusions are generated in the mind...but they are NOT mind only..they all exist somehow outside of that mind illusion.
If I ever figure out the rest I'll try to let you know.
It goes very deep quite quickly.
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach