Two approaches.
Re: Two approaches.
Much Ado About Nothing!
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
It seems that gad rgyangs likes to preponderate against Namdrol's Dzogchen view, which is not good as intention at all.
Through study and contemplation, all answers will arise one day. If it is necessary....
Most of the times, it is not. Most of the times, it is only the display of ego-attachment.
By the way, what happened to White Lotus (Tom) who opened this topic and then disappeared?
Maybe his question has already been answered through all these posts....
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
It seems that gad rgyangs likes to preponderate against Namdrol's Dzogchen view, which is not good as intention at all.
Through study and contemplation, all answers will arise one day. If it is necessary....
Most of the times, it is not. Most of the times, it is only the display of ego-attachment.
By the way, what happened to White Lotus (Tom) who opened this topic and then disappeared?
Maybe his question has already been answered through all these posts....
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
What seems like personal controversy on this thread is more like a resurfacing battle which originates from an epic and ancient war spanning eons of thread. We may never see the end of it, but know that you'll learn some interesting things and gain valuable insight while it goes on. It never sleeps and it cannot be stopped... Resistance is futile!Dronma wrote:Much Ado About Nothing!
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
Re: Two approaches.
asunthatneversets wrote:What seems like personal controversy on this thread is more like a resurfacing battle which originates from an epic and ancient war spanning eons of thread. We may never see the end of it, but know that you'll learn some interesting things and gain valuable insight while it goes on. It never sleeps and it cannot be stopped... Resistance is futile!Dronma wrote:Much Ado About Nothing!
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
No personal controversy.
Re: Two approaches.
gad rgyangs - please just knock off this BASIS BASIS BASIS BASIS BASIS thing.Dronma wrote:Much Ado About Nothing!
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
It seems that gad rgyangs likes to preponderate against Namdrol's Dzogchen view, which is not good as intention at all.
Through study and contemplation, all answers will arise one day. If it is necessary....
Most of the times, it is not. Most of the times, it is only the display of ego-attachment.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
Re: Two approaches.
I am not interested in any resistance.asunthatneversets wrote:What seems like personal controversy on this thread is more like a resurfacing battle which originates from an epic and ancient war spanning eons of thread. We may never see the end of it, but know that you'll learn some interesting things and gain valuable insight while it goes on. It never sleeps and it cannot be stopped... Resistance is futile!Dronma wrote:Much Ado About Nothing!
The whole topic has been mutated to a personal controversy between gad rgyangs and Namdrol.
It is only so tiring to read again and again the same objections from people like gad rgyangs, who are like deaf and blind.
He sees what he likes to see, and hears what he likes to hear..... The rest do not exist for him!
Additionally he always talks as if he is in the state of Rigpa all the time!
What is the use of all this???
Then I really wonder about White Lotus!
Where is he? He is not interested in the topic which he personally opened?
He presented two approaches, and for my understanding his words had an obvious polemic against "Namkhai Norbu's school", which he finds similar to Theravada.
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Two approaches.
"knock off this BASIS thing" in a discussion of the Dzoghchen view. Thats a good one Paul, did you come up with that all by yourself?Paul wrote: gad rgyangs - please just knock off this BASIS BASIS BASIS BASIS BASIS thing.
(imagine Brando at the end of Apocalypse now, except he's wispering as he dies "the...comedy....the.....comedy")
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Two approaches.
so you're saying sentient beings and buddhas are the display of a different basis? you're saying that sentient beings and buddhas are not included in "all phenomena of samsara and nirvana"? you seem to be claiming there is the basis and its display, on the one hand, and then there's sentient beings and buddhas, but they have nothing to do with each other. if this were so, in what way would the basis be "our real nature"?Namdrol wrote: Sentient beings are deluded about the display of the basis. When they cease to be so deluded, they are buddhas.
The basis never displays as anything other than the five lights.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Two approaches.
Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.Dronma wrote:Then I really wonder about White Lotus!
Where is he? He is not interested in the topic which he personally opened?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
- Shabkar
Re: Two approaches.
You are very much fond of intellectual masturbation, Mr gad rgyangs! Isn't it?gad rgyangs wrote: so you're saying sentient beings and buddhas are the display of a different basis? you're saying that sentient beings and buddhas are not included in "all phenomena of samsara and nirvana"? you seem to be claiming there is the basis and its display, on the one hand, and then there's sentient beings and buddhas, but they have nothing to do with each other. if this were so, in what way would the basis be "our real nature"?
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
I'm afraid, it is more complicated.Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.
Don't forget that Jax (as Robert) also appeared in this thread....
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
Hmm, I doubt they're connected. White Lotus has been around for a long time.Dronma wrote:I'm afraid, it is more complicated.Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.
Don't forget that Jax (as Robert) also appeared in this thread....
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
- Shabkar
- gad rgyangs
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:53 pm
Re: Two approaches.
Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.
Dronma wrote: You are very much fond of intellectual masturbation, Mr gad rgyangs! Isn't it?
you people are actually quite horrible. I try to ignore you as much as possible, but sometimes it genuinely astonishes me.
Thoroughly tame your own mind.
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
This is (possibly) the teaching of Buddha.
"I must finally conclude that this proposition, I am, I exist, is necessarily true whenever it is put forward by me or conceived in my mind."
- Descartes, 2nd Meditation 25
Re: Two approaches.
Maybe it is all coincidence, maybe not....Pero wrote:Hmm, I doubt they're connected. White Lotus has been around for a long time.Dronma wrote:I'm afraid, it is more complicated.Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.
Don't forget that Jax (as Robert) also appeared in this thread....
What I see is that those mistaken views from different people have common starting points and one target.
It is not good to examine closely one tree and loosing the whole forest.
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
But it is intellectual masturbation, Mr gad rgyangs!gad rgyangs wrote:Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.Dronma wrote: You are very much fond of intellectual masturbation, Mr gad rgyangs! Isn't it?
you people are actually quite horrible. I try to ignore you as much as possible, but sometimes it genuinely astonishes me.
You are trying to find intellectual answers to what it is not intellectual at all !!!!
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
gad rgyangs wrote:Pero wrote: Probably not since he seems to only be interested in his own delusions.Dronma wrote: You are very much fond of intellectual masturbation, Mr gad rgyangs! Isn't it?
you people are actually quite horrible. I try to ignore you as much as possible, but sometimes it genuinely astonishes me.
You go round and round, completely impervious to what others say, including Namdrol that You love to discuss with while trying to ignore use ... May be is it that not having the capacity for Dzogchen.
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Re: Two approaches.
Let's try to stay constructive everyone... Were deviating into dangerous waters fast here!
Re: Two approaches.
gad rgyangs wrote:so you're saying sentient beings and buddhas are the display of a different basis? you're saying that sentient beings and buddhas are not included in "all phenomena of samsara and nirvana"? you seem to be claiming there is the basis and its display, on the one hand, and then there's sentient beings and buddhas, but they have nothing to do with each other. if this were so, in what way would the basis be "our real nature"?Namdrol wrote: Sentient beings are deluded about the display of the basis. When they cease to be so deluded, they are buddhas.
The basis never displays as anything other than the five lights.
I like the way you systematically misrepresent what I am saying.
read what I said above, and you will see how much your statement purporting to represent what I said, does not represent it, much in the same way that a man with jaundice persistently sees white as yellow.
N
Last edited by Malcolm on Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Two approaches.
Better than splashing in the mud, asunthatneversets!asunthatneversets wrote:Were deviating into dangerous waters fast here!
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
This reminds me a lot the "direct transmission" from Jax to his students!White Lotus wrote: the first approach could be summed up... just be. or according to lonchen Rabjam, normal awareness. this approach was held by the Zen master Bankei Zenshi. it is the idea that we are born with a complete buddha mind. this mind is the Inborn or Unborn mind of all buddhas. it is our everyday mind. for example you know you are reading this thread. that knowledge though simple is a function of buddha mind.
The sound of s i l e n c e.....
Re: Two approaches.
Dronma wrote:Better than splashing in the mud, asunthatneversets!asunthatneversets wrote:Were deviating into dangerous waters fast here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX8KXx40hRA