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the 5th precept - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

the 5th precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Ytrog
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Ytrog » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:09 am

I'm currently trying to lessen my intake of caffeine. At work I was drinking about 10 cups of coffee a day plus some cola. The effects are really like an addiction with even withdrawal effects in the weekend manifested as headaches.

I would say that when considering caffeine that you should keep in mind that it is an addictive substance. When you have addictions your mind is not free. I believe this is stated in the Tipitaka.

suanck
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby suanck » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:15 am

*
If I remember correctly, a guy (Sarakani) of the Sakyan clan was drunk most of the times. But at death, he became a Stream-Enterer (Samyutta Nikaya).

Suan.

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Ben
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:26 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Paññāsikhara
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:15 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Ben
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

rowyourboat
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:24 am

You guys dont kid yourself. You need to keep the five precepts to get to any good stable place in the dhamma. Your mind will give you all the reasons why you should break some at some point- but just know that this is your defilements talking and don't kid yourself. If you cant even give up alcohol just in case it might be problematic, you wont progress very far in this dhamma. Your dedication to the dhamma is not enough. Your levels of letting go are not enough (samma sankappa- right intention- nekkhamma sankappa- intention to renounce/let go) to give rise to sila (that is the stepwise generation of the noble eightfold path as per the mahacattasarika sutta/MN). The reason for that is that the first step -Right View- is not 'Right' enough yet and there is little faith/saddha. Without good sila, there wont be any right livelihood (samma aajiva), again as per the stepwise progression of the noble eightfold path. If you job requires wine tasting and if that is more important than overcoming endless rounds of births and deaths you need to take a serious look at where you are in the path right now.

:jedi:

with metta

RYB
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Karuna
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& Upekkha

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pilgrim
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby pilgrim » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:32 pm

I have no particular liking for alcohol, but lately I'm convinced that a little red wine once in a while is beneficial to health and intend to consume moderate amounts. I agree with Ajahn Khemasanto that there is nothing intrinsically evil about alcohol, - the point is not to let it affect your mind. After all many common foods, such as yoghurt, soy sauce, spaghetti sauce, mustard, etc contain alcohol and most buddhists have no issue consuming them.

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Ben
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:25 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

chownah
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby chownah » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:52 pm

Caffeine is not an addictive substance in that it does not change the body chemistry of most people so that its absence causes bad reactions....having said this I suppose it is possible for individuals to have bad reactions when their daily dosage of caffeine is disrupted.....it is probably best for theses people to say that caffeine is addictive for them.....for the huge vast majority of people in the world (yes, I"ve asked every one of them) caffeine is a mild stimulant and not addictive in any way....

There is such a thing as an addictive personality....being people whose personalities thend to lead them into habituation for various things....in fact there is evidence that personality is a major factor for narcotic addiction in that thousands of people every year take enough morphine and related drugs in hospital every year to become addicted but for the overwhelming majority of these people addiction is not a problem.

chownah

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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Individual » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:05 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


rowyourboat
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:59 pm

It is interesting that no one is thinking along the lines of karma but thinking along scientific evidence. Perhaps working on Right View is in order? Right view is the source of the path.

"The drinking of fermented & distilled liquors — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from drinking fermented & distilled liquors is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to mental derangement."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
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& Upekkha

Individual
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Individual » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:06 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


rowyourboat
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby rowyourboat » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:12 am

"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view...

"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view.
-Mahacattasarika sutta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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suriyopama
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby suriyopama » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:40 pm


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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:09 pm

Hi.
As a monk I would say that the 5th precept has to include all mind altering drugs,except those for medical purposes.
At the temple where I am smoking is a big no no.
Coffee and tea can both be taken but not after midday :coffee:
With metta
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Individual » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:14 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:50 pm

Hi Individual.
I agree.Many foods do give us some sort of rush.
I myself used to be a real coffee addict.A friend of mine once counted me having 30 cups of coffee one saturday.I cut back drastically when that was brought to my attention.Actually I quit out right but the shakes I got were just incredible,so I went back to the coffee and then started to cut down on it.
I remember some years ago when I was still in New Zealand some guys getting stoned on datura tea.They had been drinking beer and smashed the bottles.While they were stoned they were walking around over the broken glass not feeling it.By the time they were found one of the guys had bled to death.Thankfully the other two survived.
The police did not prosecute saying that datura was a common garden plant found throughout the country and therefore not illegal.When some people said that if you could get high on it,perhaps it should be made illegal.
The police response was that if you were going to ban everything that got you high then they would have to close down all the supermarkets.
Many meditation centers do not allow the drinking of coffee or of tea stating that it affects your meditation.
As I said before,at my temple this rule is not in place,however we are supposed to mindful in respect to food and drink.Only taking what is necessary and no more.
I personally have no more than 2 cups a day.Anymore and I think sitting meditation would be off the agenda. :coffee:
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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Ytrog
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Ytrog » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:04 pm

How would you get rid of the habit to use mind altering substances? I try lessening with caffeine, but I sleep so bad that I need it just to do my job properly. I'm afraid that going cold-turkey would result in withdrawal effects (had it before, after not using it for half a day).

I apologise if this isn't the right place to ask, but I would like to get rid of that almost constant restlesness during the day.

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Hanzze
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Hanzze » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:37 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Sunrise
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Re: the 5th precept

Postby Sunrise » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:47 pm

Although the precept says to stay away from alcohol (or any other intoxicant for that matter) I personally think it is fine to take prescribed drugs on medical purposes or consume other sorts of drinks under certain circumstances that force you to do so like harsh weather conditions for example. It is up to the practitioner to keep them in control so that it will not be a hindrance to the practice.

The idea of the precept is that, a person under intoxication is not generally in a clear state of mind. Lack of mental focus and clarity is a hindrance to the Buddhist practice and meditation. In such a state, there is a better chance for a person to engage in wrong-doings and break the other precepts as well which will lead to greater difficulties to the practice. Therefore it makes sense to abide by the precept unless there are other circumstances that force you to do otherwise. It is up to you to make sure you are in control. The precepts are there just to guide you. Of course that is just my opinion :smile:


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