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Online Pali Canon? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Online Pali Canon?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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victor79
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby victor79 » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:39 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:12 pm

Everywhere I know off have already been mentioned!
but if you have a look on the link section on Access to Insight their are a few links to programs, sites etc which are quite interesting


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

nathan
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby nathan » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:13 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:00 pm

also and some people may disagree with me, but i feel the reader's beliefs also color how they read the translations i know that i and other western buddhists ive talked to just dont get or see things in some translations that some other western buddhists do.

also i'm a poet not a scholar so i look for different things than someone with a more scholarly bent would

i would say as a poet i read different than a the scholarly person as well

i also know full well the danger of people seeing in writing what they want to see, so maybe tilt is right about which is a better translation (over all) but for me the bodhi one is the better translation
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

nathan
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby nathan » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:53 am

What people who understand pali well could show us, if they had the tools and the right venue, would blow our minds. Again and again. Pali is incredibly rich in meaning. The gramatical constructions of the words, tenses, etc. in the pali point to both the multi-layered meanings that we may more easily note at times when we compare the few translations we have. What is less obvious is the extreme precision that can also be incorporated into the individual words, the relationships between the words and the relationship of these words and phrases to the whole structure of the text. If we could be shown real examples of this, again and again, as needed, we would have so many of our debates and divergent opinions about what a text means definitively settled beyond questioning so far as the texts go. It would revolutionize not only our personal understanding but how we communicate about the dhamma with each other. All of the implication that we need a modern secular language that is better would be blown out of the water pretty much instantly. The list goes on...
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

victor79
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby victor79 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 am

i prefer the Horner translation simply because it's consistant with my own views..... :(

i must agree, to undertake a serious study of the pali canon requires at least basic knowledge of pali... otherwise, we're stumbling around in the dark....

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tiltbillings
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:34 am

Just a bit more about the Horner and Ven. Bodhi translations. There is a short sutta in the SN that nicely clears up our text in contention, the title of which is translated by Ven Bodhi as The Destination, SN IV 373, CDB II 1379: The Destination, in Pali: Paraayana Sutta. What is quite nice here is that the Buddha defines quite clealy what he means by paraayana, destiny/going beyond.

And what, bhikkhus, is the destination [the going beyond (which is more literal)]? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the destination [the going beyond]. In other words, nibbana. Paraayana is one of the 33 epithets for nibbana.

Taking that this sutta as part of the larger context of our contended text, it would seem that both Ven Bodhi and Ms Horner's translations are really not say anything different. I would still prefer Ms Horner's translation. It seems to me to be a bit clearer as to meaning.

green
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby green » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:19 pm


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Dhammanando
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:24 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:55 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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AlaskanDhamma
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby AlaskanDhamma » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:28 pm

"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha

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AlaskanDhamma
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby AlaskanDhamma » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:39 pm

Thank you everyone for the plentiful information.

Translations of texts of such importance will always be something to be debated about. Everyone wants to get the "right" or "accurate" translation. Which I'm afraid is impossible since you'd have to have lived in those times to have the right translation. Thousands of years will play "telephone" with texts, leading people to believe one thing while it actuality something else is attempting to be conveyed.

The overall message is what is important to me though. What was Buddha trying to say? During those times he would be speaking to a certain group of people at a certain time and for a certain purpose, with a certain context. The importance isn't in his exact wording, but in his message of the Dhamma.

Just my opinion. :shrug:
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha

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Dhammanando
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:37 am


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AlaskanDhamma
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby AlaskanDhamma » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:35 pm

Ven. Dhammanando,

Do you know the name of that Thai painting on the website? Is this when Lord Buddha is dying?
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha

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piotr
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby piotr » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:10 pm

Hi,

Here you can find trilinear edition (Pali text, English gloss & translation with notes) of Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna-sutta (DN 22) done by Piya Tan.

http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/pali ... D22PDF.zip

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Dhammanando
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby Dhammanando » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:11 pm


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AlaskanDhamma
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Re: Online Pali Canon?

Postby AlaskanDhamma » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:21 am

Thank you Bhante. :anjali:
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha


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