Simple question about Pure Lands

Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby Nosta » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:58 pm

Thanks for the answers to both of you :)
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby sinweiy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:16 am

there's no beginning. like the number system, there's always a number before a certain number. and ther's always a number after a certain number. all is dependent arising.

"..universal definition - which is emphasised in Mahayana Buddhism (particularly the Hua Yen school) - states that all phenomena are arising together in a mutually interdependent web of cause and effect.

"Dependent origination provides that sentient beings are mere conceptual constructs designated upon bundles of causes and conditions, that is aggregates."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%AB ... tp%C4%81da
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby sinweiy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:39 pm

World-Honored One, is this mass of sentient beings, or ocean of sentient beings, increasing or decreasing? I am unable to understand this profound meaning. How should I answer if someone asks me about this?”

....“Śāriputra, the enormously wrong view refers to seeing increase or seeing decrease in the realm of sentient beings....

Śāriputra, this profound meaning is in effect the highest truth, and the highest truth is in effect the realm of sentient beings. The realm of sentient beings is in effect the Tathāgata store, and the Tathāgata store is in effect the dharma body. Śāriputra, the dharma body, as I have explained in the inconceivable Buddha Dharma, is not apart, not removed, not severed, and not different from the merit and wisdom of the Tathāgata, which are more abundant than the sands of the Ganges.
“Śāriputra, taking the ordinary lamp as an analogy, its flame and its brightness are not apart or removed from each other. As another analogy, the form and the luster of a precious jewel are not apart or removed from each other. Likewise is the dharma body, as explained by the Tathāgata in the inconceivable Buddha Dharma. It is not apart, not removed, not severed, and not different from the merit and wisdom of the Tathāgata, which are more abundant than the sands of the Ganges.
...
“Furthermore, Śāriputra, it is also this dharma body that, having transcended all suffering in the world and having left behind the bondage of afflictions, will reveal its purity and silence, and will abide in pure dharmas on the opposite shore, arriving on the ground that all sentient beings wish for. One who has achieved the unexcelled, ultimate insight into the realm of dharmas, free from all hindrances and obstructions, and has acquired the power of command in the midst of all dharmas, is called a Tathāgata, the Samyak-Saṁbuddha. Therefore, Śāriputra, not apart from the realm of sentient beings is the dharma body; not apart from the dharma body is the realm of sentient beings. The realm of sentient beings is in effect the dharma body; the dharma body is in effect the realm of sentient beings. Śāriputra, these two dharmas under different names have the same meaning.

佛說不增不減經
Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of Neither Increase Nor Decrease
Translated from Sanskrit into Chinese in the Northern Wei Dynasty
by The Tripiṭaka Master Bodhiruci from India
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra14.html
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby LastLegend » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:35 am

Exist and not exist at the same time that's when one has become a complete Buddha. Like the TV and its images, when we turn the TV off, we cannot say the images don't not exist. When we turn the TV on, the images are there.
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby sinweiy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:00 am

the TV is also empty of "self" nature as it's form by components and electicity and people acting etc. the components is not the TV, the electicity is not the TV and the people acting is not the TV. the images are impermanent. Buddhanature are impermanent too. like the firm strips in the images, 24 images per second. we cannot say every two subsequent images are similar nor identical. in close range the two images may look the same, but yet they are not. all are dependent arising and empty in nature.
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby LastLegend » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am

I refuse to talk about the TV because I was not talking about the TV.
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby qweqwe » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:12 am

Astus wrote:Buddha-lands exist because of the buddhas who created them, just as the world exist because of people's karma. Now the questions are whether buddhas live eternally or not, and sentient beings are infinite or not. But is there a definitive answer?


Of course Buddhas live forever! One who has reached the Pure Lands will not see the face of death ever again!
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby LastLegend » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:28 am

Yes, Buddhas exist eternally if we want to put it that way. Refer to the example of TV and its images.
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby sinweiy » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:54 am

11. What is a Bodhisattva?
An awakened being, who has feelings, enlightens self and others, and benefits self and others. A Bodhisattva can become a Buddha through observing the six Paramitas (Giving, observing the Precepts, endurance under insults, zeal and progress, meditation on Zen & Samadhi, wisdom), but vows to remain in the realm of incarnation to save others.
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/faqs.htm
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby Astus » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:20 am

Last Legend wrote:Exist and not exist at the same time that's when one has become a complete Buddha.

qweqwe wrote:Of course Buddhas live forever!


There are four extreme views:
the view of "existence"
the view of "non-existence"
the view of "existence and non-existence"
the view of "neither existence nor non-existence"

However, in common language we use all four, and for the sake of simplicity we can say that the buddhas exist, the pure lands exist, just as humans, animals and others exist. But it's beneficial to understand that the teachings are not meant to be clung to like dead statements but used for the benefit of oneself and others. And when they are not conducive to peace and kindness we know we are doing something wrong.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: Simple question about Pure Lands

Postby LastLegend » Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:47 am

Astus wrote:
Last Legend wrote:Exist and not exist at the same time that's when one has become a complete Buddha.

qweqwe wrote:Of course Buddhas live forever!


There are four extreme views:
the view of "existence"
the view of "non-existence"
the view of "existence and non-existence"
the view of "neither existence nor non-existence"

However, in common language we use all four, and for the sake of simplicity we can say that the buddhas exist, the pure lands exist, just as humans, animals and others exist. But it's beneficial to understand that the teachings are not meant to be clung to like dead statements but used for the benefit of oneself and others. And when they are not conducive to peace and kindness we know we are doing something wrong.


I am not a philosopher...so refer to the example of TV and its images again. Simple language.
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