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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:23 am

An excellent job in difficult circumstances.

I wasn't complaining, just noting how a forum attracts a form of 'niche trolling' as it moves in a particular direction.

One example is a thread which has been locked, which shows that Mods deal with such nonsense effectively. Snake-oil salesmen are soon exposed here. ;)
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Sönam » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:28 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Yes, Tara and G and others, you guys do an exceptional job moderating. Probably the best moderation I've experienced, which is really saying something on a forum of a religious nature, especially one pertaining to a religion with so many different approaches. I think you guys do a great job at the difficult task of balancing keeping true to authentic Dharma and being democratic and allowing free expression. So thanks, and well done. :namaste:


I agree about that ... Thank you to the mods (and because of the proximity, specially to Mr G)

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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:52 pm

Moderating is a thankless task. Nuking things quickly when they violate the ToS and (worse) the spirit of Samaya and keeping sacred things sacred, is commendable.

My comment was simply to ask whether I missed anything, given the fact that the mods are doing their job here and keeping the rif-raff to a minimum. If y'all have been getting grief from ingrates and are sensitive, please don't lump me together with them.

I thought that I was "losing the plot" on this thread since there was mention of trolls where I could see none. Asking for clarification and whether the poster thought that the remaining posts constituted trolling was reasonable, as was my comment that the mods here do their job well.

I will continue to ask for clarification any time I'm not understanding what's going on, as I'm new here, if not new to message boards in general.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby CapNCrunch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:55 pm

I still didn't get an answer btw - Was there some obvious trolling on this thread that was nuked, or is "Jax" considered a troll b/c some said he was here fishing for students??? That is really where I was going w/ my question, but I didn't want to name names and thus cause offense to Jax.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:36 pm

CapNCrunch wrote:I still didn't get an answer btw - Was there some obvious trolling on this thread that was nuked, or is "Jax" considered a troll b/c some said he was here fishing for students??? That is really where I was going w/ my question, but I didn't want to name names and thus cause offense to Jax.


He was deemed a disruptive troll. You can read this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7436

However, if people are concerned I didn't give him a fair shake, I have no problems un-banning him.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:18 am

Mr. G: Posts split from: Rebirth as a Rudra

gad rgyangs wrote:what if you're a closed-minded petty intolerant self righteous fundamentalist and you practice dzogchen, what are you reborn as then?


So lemme get this straight... You engage us not in some neutral space where a multiplicity of views are espoused--but instead come directly to our specifically Dzogchen forum--and try to convince us that our beliefs, experience, and/or knowledge are wrong, and our vehement disagreement with you on this point makes us the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? How does that work?
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby gad rgyangs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:25 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:what if you're a closed-minded petty intolerant self righteous fundamentalist and you practice dzogchen, what are you reborn as then?


What is it that makes a Dzogchen practitioner "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, and fundamentalist" in your estimation? I imagine it would have to be more than merely feeling that Dzogchen is the most profound path in this world.


all those terms are simple english & self explanatory.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:29 am

Of course your usage of them is not, which is the clarification I obviously asked for. But nevermind, because I edited my post to be more to the point.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby gad rgyangs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:53 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:You engage us not in some neutral space where a multiplicity of views are espoused--but instead come directly to our specifically Dzogchen forum--and try to convince us that our beliefs, experience, and/or knowledge are wrong, and our vehement disagreement with you on this point makes us the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? How does that work?


wait..wut??? :rolling:
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:56 am

gad rgyangs wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:You engage us not in some neutral space where a multiplicity of views are espoused--but instead come directly to our specifically Dzogchen forum--and try to convince us that our beliefs, experience, and/or knowledge are wrong, and our vehement disagreement with you on this point makes us the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? How does that work?


wait..wut??? :rolling:


Fine, evade the question if you must.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby gad rgyangs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:59 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:You engage us not in some neutral space where a multiplicity of views are espoused--but instead come directly to our specifically Dzogchen forum--and try to convince us that our beliefs, experience, and/or knowledge are wrong, and our vehement disagreement with you on this point makes us the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? How does that work?


wait..wut??? :rolling:


Fine, evade the question if you must.


sorry, was there a question?
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:15 am

gad rgyangs wrote:
sorry, was there a question?


Despite the fact that you're being obtuse for cuteness's sake, I'll put it to you a different way:

No Dzogchen practitioners here are going out evangelizing about Dzogchen and insisting others convert to our views; instead you have sought us out on a Dzogchen-specific sub-forum where we discuss our path and views amongst ourselves and you have tried to debate us into accepting your view that there's nothing unique or more profound about Dzogchen than other paths: how is it that we--and not you--are the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? You're pushing your views onto us, not the other way around.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby gad rgyangs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:33 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:
sorry, was there a question?


Despite the fact that you're being obtuse for cuteness's sake, I'll put it to you a different way:

No Dzogchen practitioners here are going out evangelizing about Dzogchen and insisting others convert to our views; instead you have sought us out on a Dzogchen-specific sub-forum where we discuss our path and views amongst ourselves and you have tried to debate us into accepting your view that there's nothing unique or more profound about Dzogchen than other paths: how is it that we--and not you--are the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? You're pushing your views onto us, not the other way around.


i still don't know wtf you are talking about. here is my most recent substantial post:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7436&p=88431#p88431

do you have a problem with it?
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Re: Rebirth as a Rudra

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:47 am

You're beating around the bush. You've accused Dzogchen practitioners here of being "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists". If I misunderstand the grounds on which you made that comment, then on what grounds did you make it?!
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Re: Rebirth as a Rudra

Postby Dronma » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:03 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:You're beating around the bush. You've accused Dzogchen practitioners here of being "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists". If I misunderstand the grounds on which you made that comment, then on what grounds did you make it?!



I think that gad rgyangs is asking for revenge because we do not accept that Dzogchen and Advaita are the same thing.
Or maybe, moreover he likes Dzogchen to be separated from what he calls "the causal vehicles".... :geek:
For sure, all this aggression must have a good cause! ;)
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby reg » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:06 am

how is it that we--and not you--are the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"?


As a fairly casual visitor to the forums, I think such a characterization is actually not too far-off base as far as some of the posts here go. At times I find it fairly off-putting, particularly as someone who is interested in making a more serious commitment to the Buddhadharma-- I can't help but be sort of discouraged by the fact that some folks who presumably have been immersed in practice for so long and and at such levels comport themselves the way they do.

I guess that I shouldn't let this bother me-- after all, I am the one who will be practicing, and I probably shouldn't make a big deal about how other people seem to be presenting themselves.

And just to clarify, I don't think that there is anything "wrong" with the Buddhadharma itself; I guess it can just be chalked up to personal immaturity that gets played out in people's posting. Goodness knows I got my share of issues (and just about always will)!

Anyway, I just felt like getting that off of my chest. I appreciate all of the expertise shared by people in these parts.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jnana » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:08 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
gad rgyangs wrote:what if you're a closed-minded petty intolerant self righteous fundamentalist and you practice dzogchen, what are you reborn as then?


So lemme get this straight... You engage us not in some neutral space where a multiplicity of views are espoused--but instead come directly to our specifically Dzogchen forum--and try to convince us that our beliefs, experience, and/or knowledge are wrong, and our vehement disagreement with you on this point makes us the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"? How does that work?

What's with the adversarial "us vs. them" rhetoric Pema? How does that work???
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Re: Rebirth as a Rudra

Postby gad rgyangs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:14 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:You're beating around the bush. You've accused Dzogchen practitioners here of being "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists". If I misunderstand the grounds on which you made that comment, then on what grounds did you make it?!


I haven't accused "dzogchen practitioners" of being "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists," but i have no qualms about accusing "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists" of being "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists". do you have a problem with that? I found that some of the reactions to both the Dutch kid and Jax exhibited those tendencies. I have no idea if the people exhibiting such immaturity claim to be dzogchen practioners, christians, muslims, or atheists, for in fact "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists" are pretty much indistinguishable, regardless of what their pet system is. If any particular person recognizes themselves in that description, thats not my problem.

You don't seem have a problem with people saying that Jax will be reborn as a Rudra because of his big ego, so why are your panties getting all in a bunch over my question?
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jnana » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:15 am

reg wrote:
how is it that we--and not you--are the "closed-minded, petty, intolerant, self-righteous, fundamentalists"?


As a fairly casual visitor to the forums, I think such a characterization is actually not too far-off base as far as some of the posts here go. At times I find it fairly off-putting, particularly as someone who is interested in making a more serious commitment to the Buddhadharma-- I can't help but be sort of discouraged by the fact that some folks who presumably have been immersed in practice for so long and and at such levels comport themselves the way they do.

I guess that I shouldn't let this bother me-- after all, I am the one who will be practicing, and I probably shouldn't make a big deal about how other people seem to be presenting themselves.

Yeah, no big deal. It's better to not draw conclusions from the clique on an internet sub-forum. But FWIW, I often get a funny vibe from this Dzogchen sub-forum too.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby heart » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:17 am

gad rgyangs wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Fine, evade the question if you must.


sorry, was there a question?


Yes, put a little more politely I think it is; gad rgyangs, since you obviously don't practice Dzogchen why do you post exclusively in the Dzogchen forum? What is your tradition and who are you're teachers?

/magnus
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