after understanding im nothing

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:43 am

To Quiet Heart:
I think what you said is what im saying no?Maybe what im experiencing is a temporary thing and will go away.im not stuck to it,
Just wanted to ask if someone else has had this experience.But thank you for what you said.And i highly agree
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby DarwidHalim » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:44 am

Does your view of no I reject appearances?

Do you feel balance between the diversity of appearances and no self?

What is the difference of your view about no I and nihilism?
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby Jinzang » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:23 pm

One of the best ways for ego to hide is to think it has achieved enlightenment, or more modestly, a small taste of enlightenment. Tai Situ Rinpoche has called this "unidentified flying ego." The best way of dealing with this is through meditation. Sit down and let whatever thoughts that happen, happen without attempt to change them. Make no distinction between enlightened and unenlightened thoughts, do not try to prolong or dismiss them. But watch everything. As far as you can, be aware of every thought that passes through your mind.

If you do this practice daily, I think it will resolve your problem.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:37 pm

Jinzang wrote:One of the best ways for ego to hide is to think it has achieved enlightenment, or more modestly, a small taste of enlightenment. Tai Situ Rinpoche has called this "unidentified flying ego." The best way of dealing with this is through meditation. Sit down and let whatever thoughts that happen, happen without attempt to change them. Make no distinction between enlightened and unenlightened thoughts, do not try to prolong or dismiss them. But watch everything. As far as you can, be aware of every thought that passes through your mind.

If you do this practice daily, I think it will resolve your problem.

I agree.In no way im saying im enlightened :P but was merely asking if someone else has had this experience aswell.but with what you said i agree and for me its the only way to go.to observe.thanks again! il post again next time if something happens. :thanks:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:40 pm

DarwidHalim wrote:Does your view of no I reject appearances?

Do you feel balance between the diversity of appearances and no self?

What is the difference of your view about no I and nihilism?


i wont say reject appearances but since i have been observing and separating the differents parts of objects i see.the brain is naturally doing this for me.

there isnt a balance hence this problem.

my experience is quite nihilistic now and i am observing more to see how to be in a better place.thanks :thanks:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:41 pm

For now i would like to close this topic.I have to observe more and will come back if i have some more understanding.thanks to everyone who has helped replying. :smile:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby Adamantine » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:29 pm

tuddel wrote:For now i would like to close this topic.I have to observe more and will come back if i have some more understanding.thanks to everyone who has helped replying. :smile:


Sent you a PM<
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby Jinzang » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:48 pm

I didn't mean to imply any criticism of you in my remarks. I was speaking generally and if I left the impression that you have an ego problem or are claiming enlightenment, I sincerely apologize. I wish you the best of luck in your practice. If you continue to have questions I think it would be best to find a teacher you can speak to in person. Failing that, you are welcome to post your questions on this forum and I and he other members will do what they can to assist you.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:39 pm

Jinzang wrote:I didn't mean to imply any criticism of you in my remarks. I was speaking generally and if I left the impression that you have an ego problem or are claiming enlightenment, I sincerely apologize. I wish you the best of luck in your practice. If you continue to have questions I think it would be best to find a teacher you can speak to in person. Failing that, you are welcome to post your questions on this forum and I and he other members will do what they can to assist you.


No you are very kind.I didnt mean that in any negative way.thank you for your time :) very much appreciated.this goes with everyone else aswell. :smile:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby kirtu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:02 am

tuddel wrote:
One risk is that one could easily fall into a type of dull-state-- where the normal vibrancy of life is not sharp

I highly agree with what you said.And i am noticing them but not sure how to get out as of now :p
Any ideas to this?thanks!


Are you in an actual dull state? What is it that you want to get out of?

Usually these kind of states mean that you have had a deep meditative experience. As others also said I would be reluctant to say more than that. It could be a very positive thing actually (or it could be negative too). But also these states usually just dissolve by themselves although they can last days (at least for me). I think I had one lasting a week. But it also began to dissolve after a few days but took a while. They *can* really alter your perception positively. If you remain in a kind of quite place it might persist a long time though. Go out with friends. Go see a movie (I saw Deep Impact straight from a retreat in a state like this and started having reactions to the suffering in the movie and the suffering of the people around me). If you live in a quite place go to a vibrant place (NYC is perfect but you might be too open to people too and could be taken advantage of so go with friends). Or do something very physical like working out. But avoid really intimate situations. Work for most people is not really sufficient to get out of this because work is kind of dulling for a lot of people just in how it's structured (if you really like your work then it's not dulling). Unfortunately a lot of this depends on you.

Kirt
Last edited by kirtu on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby kirtu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:09 am

tuddel wrote:my experience is quite nihilistic now and i am observing more to see how to be in a better place.thanks :thanks:


Hmmmm ..... kindness and love for everyone and everything doesn't arise right now?

Kirt
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby Dechen Norbu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm

The experience you're having is not that uncommon, even if I can't be exactly sure of what you're trying to describe. So I'll make the assumption that you had an insight about the empty nature of the self. When we treasure something a lot and then realize we lost it, we tend to get a bit disoriented. This is what happens when we realize, at least to a certain extent, the the self we grown attached to is, after all, a mirage. One of the reasons why it is good to have a solid background is that when the time of gaining an insight about the empty nature of the self comes, intellectually we already see it as an illusion that harms us. I'm not sure you did the homework on that part, but that's of no consequence now.

When you realize, or at least gain some insight, about the fact that the self is a mirage, an artifact born from delusion, you lose something but you also gain something. The less grip your belief in a truly existent self has upon you, the more free you become. After all your awareness is still there. Notice it. And that is not an illusion. Even if your idea of a self was a fantasy, your sentience is not. You are aware, and perhaps the only thing- the more "real"- thing you can experience, that doesn't need any confirmation and is unmediated, is that awareness and its potentialities. Seems to me you got rid of a fantasy while gaining potentiality. How's that a bad deal, especially if the attachment to this self is the biggest cause for our suffering? Perhaps instead of focusing on the emptiness side of the issue, now you should focus on the potentialities such insight entails. It seems a good endeavor at this point.

Note, however, that there's also a way to reify the self opposite to clinging. It's rejecting it, which is a reification by the negative (and it's quite depressing). Make sure such is not happening. Our mind can be so messy that without even noticing we can take some episodes by what they aren't. A healthy ego is a prerequisite to cut through our attachment to it. By this I don't mean you don't have one. But as you seem to have lost your feet a little, checking if we're fine can never hurt. Insight and progress are always a good thing (not from the perspective of those who cling fiercely to their idea of a self, perhaps). When they aren't, we must check why and if indeed there's progress or if we're biting just another fantasy of our own making.

Whatever it may be, I wish you the best. Keep in touch and tell us how is it going, if you want to! :twothumbsup:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:20 pm

kirtu wrote:
tuddel wrote:my experience is quite nihilistic now and i am observing more to see how to be in a better place.thanks :thanks:


Hmmmm ..... kindness and love for everyone and everything doesn't arise right now?

Kirt


hmm it does based on understanding and logic.
i say nihilistic in a sense that.there is a problem with this way of experience.but i dont want to continue talking about his for now.i need to observe more.
Last edited by tuddel on Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:52 pm

kirtu wrote:
tuddel wrote:
One risk is that one could easily fall into a type of dull-state-- where the normal vibrancy of life is not sharp

I highly agree with what you said.And i am noticing them but not sure how to get out as of now :p
Any ideas to this?thanks!


Are you in an actual dull state? What is it that you want to get out of?

Usually these kind of states mean that you have had a deep meditative experience. As others also said I would be reluctant to say more than that. It could be a very positive thing actually (or it could be negative too). But also these states usually just dissolve by themselves although they can last days (at least for me). I think I had one lasting a week. But it also began to dissolve after a few days but took a while. They *can* really alter your perception positively. If you remain in a kind of quite place it might persist a long time though. Go out with friends. Go see a movie (I saw Deep Impact straight from a retreat in a state like this and started having reactions to the suffering in the movie and the suffering of the people around me). If you live in a quite place go to a vibrant place (NYC is perfect but you might be too open to people too and could be taken advantage of so go with friends). Or do something very physical like working out. But avoid really intimate situations. Work for most people is not really sufficient to get out of this because work is kind of dulling for a lot of people just in how it's structured (if you really like your work then it's not dulling). Unfortunately a lot of this depends on you.

Kirt


Thanks Kirt I am taking some rest for now :) change the mood a bit. As for the state i dont want to comment on it first.I still am understanding it.sorry for the short reply.but if i learn something i will surely share! :woohoo:
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Re: after understanding im nothing

Postby tuddel » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:The experience you're having is not that uncommon, even if I can't be exactly sure of what you're trying to describe. So I'll make the assumption that you had an insight about the empty nature of the self. When we treasure something a lot and then realize we lost it, we tend to get a bit disoriented. This is what happens when we realize, at least to a certain extent, the the self we grown attached to is, after all, a mirage. One of the reasons why it is good to have a solid background is that when the time of gaining an insight about the empty nature of the self comes, intellectually we already see it as an illusion that harms us. I'm not sure you did the homework on that part, but that's of no consequence now.

When you realize, or at least gain some insight, about the fact that the self is a mirage, an artifact born from delusion, you lose something but you also gain something. The less grip your belief in a truly existent self has upon you, the more free you become. After all your awareness is still there. Notice it. And that is not an illusion. Even if your idea of a self was a fantasy, your sentience is not. You are aware, and perhaps the only thing- the more "real"- thing you can experience, that doesn't need any confirmation and is unmediated, is that awareness and its potentialities. Seems to me you got rid of a fantasy while gaining potentiality. How's that a bad deal, especially if the attachment to this self is the biggest cause for our suffering? Perhaps instead of focusing on the emptiness side of the issue, now you should focus on the potentialities such insight entails. It seems a good endeavor at this point.

Note, however, that there's also a way to reify the self opposite to clinging. It's rejecting it, which is a reification by the negative (and it's quite depressing). Make sure such is not happening. Our mind can be so messy that without even noticing we can take some episodes by what they aren't. A healthy ego is a prerequisite to cut through our attachment to it. By this I don't mean you don't have one. But as you seem to have lost your feet a little, checking if we're fine can never hurt. Insight and progress are always a good thing (not from the perspective of those who cling fiercely to their idea of a self, perhaps). When they aren't, we must check why and if indeed there's progress or if we're biting just another fantasy of our own making.

Whatever it may be, I wish you the best. Keep in touch and tell us how is it going, if you want to! :twothumbsup:

Thanks for the info! i will keep in touch (sorry cant say much for now) and update you guys on any new understanding! :spy:
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