Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

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Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby wayland » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:34 am

Some pretty profound vids on YouTube by Bentinho Massaro.
I'm unsure what to make of them. Would you say that he is abiding in rigpa?
Is this a direct introduction to mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-J5BjWb9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tij5PtEt ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaWfcrA6 ... re=related
:namaste:
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:14 am

Personally, it seems to me that he and a lot of non-dual teachers take 'awareness' as being something real. They seem to teach that you just abide in being directly aware and being aware that you're aware. Not that it isn't profound, but in Dzogchen/Mahamudra there is no abiding in anything.

Also, you can't get an introduction to the natural state from a YouTube video.
Image

"Do not block your six senses; delight in them with joy and ease.
All that you take pleasure in will strengthen the awakened state.
With such a confidence, empowered by the regal state of natural mind,
The training now is simply this: lets your six senses be at ease and free." - Princess Parani
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Merely Labeled » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:07 pm

That`s interesting:

When I look at the first 5 minutes of the interview with B. Massaro on http://conscious.tv/nonduality.html?bcp ... 1481603001 then I think that he did not understand his teachers. It`s like he thinks he discovered himself what they wanted to teach him anyway.

I really do not have the expertise to judge if he is there in a `Dzogchen sense` but I have listened to most of the interviews on the conscious.tv - website and thought B.Massaro to be the closest one to `the Buddhist way of seeing things`.

M.L.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:56 pm

wayland wrote:Some pretty profound vids on YouTube by Bentinho Massaro.
I'm unsure what to make of them. Would you say that he is abiding in rigpa?
Is this a direct introduction to mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-J5BjWb9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tij5PtEt ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaWfcrA6 ... re=related
:namaste:



Not profound.
Not rigpa.
No.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jax » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:19 pm

Bentinho is a friend. He has studied many Dzogchen texts. We have exchanged many emails. Rigpa can be transmitted by Youtube or any means, even by the sound of the toilet flushing. His clarity is amazingly profound. He teaches the Natural State of Rigpa. Watch more of his videos...
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:27 pm

Jax wrote:Bentinho is a friend. He has studied many Dzogchen texts. We have exchanged many emails. Rigpa can be transmitted by Youtube or any means, even by the sound of the toilet flushing. His clarity is amazingly profound. He teaches the Natural State of Rigpa. Watch more of his videos...


Many here who have received Dzogchen teachings would completely disagree.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jax » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:38 pm

Are you saying people can receive "transmission" over Internet with no human contact with Norbu, but couldn't receive a " direct introduction" by a video?

Enjoy this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n28m-opY ... ata_player
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jax » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:41 pm

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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Jax wrote:Are you saying people can receive "transmission" over Internet with no human contact with Norbu, but couldn't receive a " direct introduction" by a video?

Enjoy this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n28m-opY ... ata_player


What I'm saying is, it has to be:

1. Live
2. Qualified

And Norbu Rinpoche has also stated that a recording does not work regarding transmission
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Namdrol wrote:
wayland wrote:Some pretty profound vids on YouTube by Bentinho Massaro.
I'm unsure what to make of them. Would you say that he is abiding in rigpa?
Is this a direct introduction to mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-J5BjWb9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tij5PtEt ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaWfcrA6 ... re=related
:namaste:



Not profound.
Not rigpa.
No.


This^
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Stewart » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:49 pm

Jax wrote:Are you saying people can receive "transmission" over Internet with no human contact with Norbu, but couldn't receive a " direct introduction" by a video?

Enjoy this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n28m-opY ... ata_player


Yes, but the reasons for this have been established on many threads before. Not least that ChNNR has confirmed this is the case.

It is easy when we are in a fantasy to believe our little version of reality is true, wake up from your trip before you damage the very teachings you think you are practicing.
s.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jax » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:00 pm

Reading Longchepa's Treasuries are fully capable of awakening recognition in any sincere student, without doubt.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby MrDistracted » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:12 pm

The thread is about whether Bentinho is on the money in his teaching of Dzogchen. People don't think he is.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Jax wrote:Reading Longchepa's Treasuries are fully capable of awakening recognition in any sincere student, without doubt.


Without transmission from a living qualified teacher, reading a book by itself will not lead to awakening from a Dzogchen POV.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:14 pm

MrDistracted wrote:The thread is about whether Bentinho is on the money in his teaching of Dzogchen. People don't think he is.


Yup. He's the typical Neo-Advaitan.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:29 pm

I think what is being said by Dzogchen Masters when they have said that one can receive Direct Introduction to Dzogchen by studying Longchenpa's Treasury of Basic Space of Phenomena, is that one can receive the Word Empowerment that way IF we have already received the other three Empowerments of Vajrayana. Otherwise one has to have the Dzogchen Transmission from a Master, live. It said in Heart Drops of Dharmakaya that completing the Rushens is in itself the Direct Introduction; but most likely in parenthesis IF we have previously received Vajrayana Empowerment. However it is said that if one does receive Dzogchen Transmission from a Master, that that in itself includes all Four Empowerments, whether we've previously received Empowerments or not.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby trevor » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:39 pm

Mr. G wrote:Without transmission from a living qualified teacher, reading a book by itself will not lead to awakening from a Dzogchen POV.


In "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" - Book Two - The Practice of Trekcho - it says in the beginning

"First of all we should get into the right state for the essential ripening of the mind. For this purpose it is necessary to receive the initiation. However, if you come through this preliminary practice you will receive initiation with the practice itself.

* Lopon comments that when you receive initiation it is to show you the natural state. Afterward you can check whether you received anything by seeing whether you then perfectly understand the natural state. However, if you do the preliminary practices you will see the natural state. So that is the initiation in itself."

Preliminary practices are done with body, speech and mind.

What do you think?
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:46 pm

Trevor, see my post. We must have been typing at the same time. :D
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Jax » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:48 pm

You are confused my friend. Garab Dorje made clear the means of conveying Dzogchen: 1. Direct Introduction to the State. 2. All doubts resolved. 3. continuing in that State ( rigpa). There is no need for ANY empowerments. Garab Dorje's view and insrtuctions trump all later deviations as is being incorrectly shared here. Likewise Karma Lingpa or Padmasambhava said "no antecedent or subsequent practices are necessary" regarding the direct introduction offered in the famous terma. People are attempting to reduce Awareness to some sort of attainable state by engaging in foolish empowerments that only apply to "cause and effect" approaches. All these beliefs are no more than confused conceptualizations grounded in dualistic mind (sem).
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Re: Bentinho Massaro - Is he there in a dzogchen sense?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:13 pm

As far as I know, the texts mentioned in this thread don't say anything one way or the other about having to have previously received Empowerment (to receive Direct Introduction from any means other than live from a Guru), but I don't know if their apparent silence on this automatically implies that one doesn't need Vajrayana Empowerment to receive Direct Introduction from any means other than live from a Guru. Could go either way I suppose, considering that the said texts apparently don't say that we do need to have received Empowerment. Perhaps there are Dzogchen texts that further clarify this topic.
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