YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

No intention = no kamma? - Dhamma Wheel

No intention = no kamma?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
User avatar
lotuspadma
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:05 am

No intention = no kamma?

Postby lotuspadma » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:22 pm

I was reading a book by Ajahn Brahm, and he mentioned this guy who pushed his friend into the water as a child; his friend drowned. It got me thinking if he is to be blamed for his friend's death or not. He had no intention of doing it, but pushing him into the water was not a very nice thing to do, if he had given enough thought about it, he would have realized the risk. My question is: did he create unwholesome kamma from pushing his friend, from accidentally killing him, or both? Let's disregard the fact that he was a child, and only focus on him not having the intention. Thanks to everyone!

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:32 pm


MJH
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Norway

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby MJH » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:58 pm


User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:21 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby manas » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:18 am

Just my humble two cents worth here, but there is some passage somewhere where Buddha says 'volition is kamma', from which I infer that it is the intention which is the root of the kammic result, as expanded upon in Dhammapada 1.1:

Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

I infer from this that if one has the intent of drowning someone, and then carries it out, that unwholesome mind-state acted upon has a comparable kammic result ("...If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts..."). But if the state of mind is only of carelessness, whether a prank or ordinary ill-will but without the intent to kill, the corresponding kammic result would not be the same as if the intent had been to kill (though I can't imagine it would be a very good result). Recklessness is, of course, also unwholesome, and can have sad consequences, as I'm sure lots of us here would know from our own lives. But I recall the Buddha saying that kammas and their particular outcomes are inscrutable to ordinary beings, and that only (a Buddha?) can comprehend them (is that correct?).

NB: If I have explained any detail incorrectly, please may someone with more realization and / or erudition correct me. I would not wish to misrepresent the Teaching in any way.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:40 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby manas » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:59 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:03 am

no problem manasikara

There's actually a kamma study guide at access to insight that might be worthwhile for members to review.
Just go to http://www.accesstoinsight.org and type in "kamma study guide" in the search window at the top right of the screen.
Here it is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/kamma.html
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Darren_86
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:46 am

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby Darren_86 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:03 am

Dear All,

I've read this from a book written based on stories of Luang Phor Jaran (Abbot of Wat Ambhavan) which explain the kamma as such : Lets take the example of us trying to killing a tortise.

1. You know it is a tortise (a living being).
2. You intend to turn it over.
3. You know that your action might / will cause it to die.
4. You performed your action.
5. The tortise died as a result of your action.

If all these five actions have been committed, then the effect of this killing kamma is strong. And if not, they would not be so strong. This is picked from the book 'Fruit of Karma'.

Hope this help.

:namaste:

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:25 am


lojong1
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby lojong1 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:17 am

I've never hit a person or animal with my car. That's one reason I've never had a car.
Acintita Sutta AN 4.77:
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:36 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

MJH
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Norway

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby MJH » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:44 pm

Last edited by MJH on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:20 pm

The problem with paying for perceived misdeeds is when do you decide you've payed enough?

You see, I've tried this. I'm still attempting to pay for things I did when I was basically a child. Now I wish I had never made those promises. These are debts you can never repay. You go to your grave still feeling there's something more you should have done. :broke:

What studying Buddhadhamma has taught me? Should have just chalked it up to being stupid and let it go. Can't resurrect the dead by beating yourself with a stick. But you can learn from it and refine your mind toward the path of wisdom.

However, feeding strays is a great idea. Makes you feel good and animals always appreciate a free grub. So do I for that matter. :anjali:

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:27 pm

Had a similar cause-and-effect incident. Noticed an inordinate amount of Butterflies commuting suicide by flying into my windshield while I was driving. Then it occurred to me I had a brightly-colored faux Lei (flowery garland) wrapped around my rear-view mirror. It dawned on me these Butterflies might be mistaking them for real flowers and were aiming for it. Sure enough, I took it down and the suicidal dive-bombing stopped.

Was sad for the three or four deaths of the Butterflies but there was no way I could have anticipated this outcome. I liked looking at the flowers. My intention wasn't to cause harm, so I'm not going to kick myself. But I'm not going to put the Lei back up either. I learned something.

Hope this isn't too silly a posting. I thought it might help. It's hard to live in this world without inadvertently harming little things. I just try to do so as little as possible. :toast:

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

MJH
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Norway

Re: No intention = no kamma?

Postby MJH » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:03 pm



Return to “Discovering Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine