Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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beeblebrox
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:12 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peanut
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby peanut » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:17 pm

Nibs,

For a guy who is presumably enlightened you strike me as pretty un-self-aware. To come from a forum that refers to others who have a different focus and understanding as 'the mushroom culture' is itself back biting.

I have a hard believing you're going to hell (I'm not sure how you take that as the 'majority' of what's been said here), but the enlightenment of the Folk/Ingram clan seems something devoid of what the Buddha is known to have taught.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:19 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

nibs
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nibs » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:32 pm

Goodluck
Last edited by nibs on Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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beeblebrox
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:49 pm


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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby IanAnd » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:38 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby SDC » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:26 pm

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Kenshou » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:35 pm


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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:40 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nibs » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:45 pm

Last edited by nibs on Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:01 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:14 pm


nibs
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nibs » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:22 pm

TIme to leave you peeps do your own thing. Tis is not for me. Good luck!
Last edited by nibs on Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Kenshou » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:45 pm

Nibs-

I've got one main question: If clinging is truly gone, where is there room for negative mental gunk to arise at all anymore? It's true that we've habitually conditioned ourselves to have those negative reactions, but in my understanding of the dhamma, we are not only to dis-identify with our mental conditioning, but to overcome it.

The way I see it, if there is no ignorance of impermanence, there would not be self-identification, clinging, or aversion. Without these things, how can the old habitual reactions keep arising? The root of them has been cut.

What you have described in that post, I think, is not at all an unimportant realization, but I do think that it is only an intermediate one. I think that the fact that self-identification, craving, and aversion still arise in the individual, even if only very subtly, is a sign that they have in fact not finished the path. That they are seen for what they are and understood is definitely a good thing. But I don't think it's the end.

At least, I'd like something better, myself.

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby bodom » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:03 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby IanAnd » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:27 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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IanAnd
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby IanAnd » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:36 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

Reductor
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Reductor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:05 am


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bodom
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby bodom » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:13 am

How did I know that portion of the quote would be singled out? I even thought of not including it because I knew people would get sidetracked by it and miss the point of my posting it.

Oh Well.

But in reality Ian, what your saying is up to Folk to figure out for himself. Him and whoever follows his methods. Are his views Advaita? I dont know and honestly I dont care. I dont even know what Advaita is.

My thing is, at the end of the day does this guy and his views have any relation to my everyday practice of Buddhadhamma, of trying to eliminate greed, hatred and delusion?

Nope.

His views are his views and that is ok with me.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Ben
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Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Ben » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:54 am



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