YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment - Page 21 - Dhamma Wheel

Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
nibs
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 9:37 pm

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby nibs » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:56 pm

???
Last edited by nibs on Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

nobodyhome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby nobodyhome » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:59 pm

Im with you nibs
Last edited by nobodyhome on Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:21 pm


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:28 pm


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:32 pm

I have merged the "hardcore dharma" thread with the already inplace Ingram thread. Some of the earlier comments are worth reading.

nobodyhome
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby nobodyhome » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:46 pm


User avatar
beeblebrox
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:51 pm


User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:40 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Dharmakara
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:46 am

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby Dharmakara » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:20 pm


Mawkish1983
Posts: 1286
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby Mawkish1983 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:08 pm


nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nathan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:56 pm

If there is a criticism to be made of this 'movement', and this would seem to be the place for it, then what I find most discouraging about the further advance of this anthropocentric outlook is the almost complete disregard for the importance of the discipline. The Dhamma is only what is known and seen by skillful means, in truth. The Vinaya is what one in training does in response to seeing things as they truly are. Without both, seeing things as they are and also doing what one must do, not what one would prefer or prefer not to do, one will not truly fully understand or accomplish realization of the eightfold path. I don't think the great accomplishments of the Buddha and his disciples in the past are in the least bit mythical. I do think there has been a corresponding deterioration of respect for the discipline and a corresponding deterioration of self control and self restraint throughout the succeeding two and a half thousand years such that present there is almost none to be found in anyone anywhere in this world. That is how narcissism has come to flourish and predominate everywhere together with everything, including the Buddhadhamma.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Ben » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:16 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nathan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:35 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
legolas
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:58 am

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby legolas » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:19 am


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Ben » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:11 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

5heaps
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Latest from "hardcore dharma"

Postby 5heaps » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:37 am

A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby nathan » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:13 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
Viscid
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby Viscid » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:21 pm

I enjoy how this thread highlights the strategies people use to discern authentic Buddhist teaching and method. There seems to be a dichotomy formed between people who highly value the views and opinions of impressive teachers and their accomplishments, and those who see the text as the only authoritative source of Dhamma as espoused by the Buddha himself.

There's no doubt that one needs to be critical of both the texts, convincing teachers, and even of personal experience. What of which to have faith looks to be a matter of personal intuition of what is or is not true. Labeling something as trustworthy or not just seems to inflame intellectual argument.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Daniel M. Ingram - Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:52 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Postby manas » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:48 am

I could not delete what I wrote before, so I have edited it. I just realized that although D. Ingram has probably overestimated his level of attainment, and seems to have misunderstood the goal of Buddhist practice (liberation), that still, I do not want to be too harsh about him. He is, after all, a fellow Buddhist.
I will just work on myself, there's enough there to keep me occupied for quite a while. Peace everyone.
Last edited by manas on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine