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Pali term or concept related to Grace? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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Paññāsikhara
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:08 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Cittasanto
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:32 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:57 am


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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:47 am


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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Anicca » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:46 pm


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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:57 pm

from my experience, even within protestantism there are differing concepts, if you don't like something, you don't need to like it but you also don't need to say anything about it, maybe there are different understandings of something based on other experiences and traditions you yourself are unfamiliar with.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:08 pm

An old thread on merit transfer:


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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:35 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:17 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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octathlon
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby octathlon » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Ah, ok. Thanks, Manapa.

:smile:

Vipassana1501
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Vipassana1501 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:38 am

My apologies, I have not been at the computer and thus unable to respond to the posts that have come up regarding my question about "Grace".

First let me say that If it seemed as if my initial question left a great deal of room for interpretation, that would be because that was the way I received the question myself. My intuition is that the best point of comparison would be the Christian idea of "Gods Grace". Beings as how I'm a life-long Buddhist, I'm not overly familiar with Christian Theology- In many ways as I study interdenominational spiritual counseling I'm being exposed to some of the basic concepts the Abrhamic faiths for the first time. If we take Grace in the literal Christian sense we might say it is "Gods unmerited favor" or gods ability to do for us what we are unable to do for ourselves. I really cannot imagine a concept more antithetical to my beliefs as a Buddhist- However, as I'm studying at a Buddhist College in the West, I'm quite sure that what was being asked was not just that I explore the obvious differences between these two belief systems but rather to investigate the "possibility" of an intersection of ideologies. I brought this question to this board thinking that perhaps there was a particular word from the Pali Canon such as "anubhava" that might shed more light on the topic. It may be that such a word does not exist and since this seems to be the general consensus here in regards to linguistic interpretation, I refined my question and found some interesting responses from other sources. The refined question read as follows: "In the Theravada tradition can one find a concept corresponding to the idea of something outside of the self, which in contact with the self creates significant positive transformation the self?" (This is of course just one, VERY BROAD, interpretation of Grace). I realize that this moves the question outside of the realm of Pali vocabulary and into that of hermeneutics, so I'm not seeking a response on this board. But if you must... And thanks for everyone's input!

PS: Buddhist Chaplaincy is the practice of institutionally based spiritual counseling offered from a Buddhist perspective to people of all faiths. It is a recent development in Western Buddhism that allows Buddhists to interact with large public institution in an official capacity, this does not require one be a monk or priest as such. The School is The University of the West in Rosemead, Ca.

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Ben
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Ben » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:05 am

Hi Vipassana1501,
I tried responding yesterday but my dinky internet connection dropped out as I hit the submit button and I lost the post.
What comes to mind is a post Ed (Zavk) wrote in a thread I started on 'Gratitude' in the personal experience sub-forum, where he mentioned that the contemplation or spontaneous arising of gratitude led him to an experience of something that he described as 'grace'-like. Its tangential because its not going to be an answer rooted in textual evidence but the result of personal practice of a contemporary practitioner.
Its a shame Ajahn Dhammanando rarely posts on Dhamma Wheel as he is an expert in Pali and I am sure he would be able to introduce some interesting insights into your line of enquiry.
I am also beginning to wonder whether what you are looking for, in grace, are the ten paramitas (perfections), which when practiced, supports one in their aspirations. Just an idea!
all the very best with your studies!
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Paññāsikhara
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:10 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

Paññāsikhara
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:13 am

Ideas like the anubhava or adhisthana of the Buddha (or bodhisattvas) "empowering" other living beings is something that is associated with the later stages of the Mahayana. In particular, some (but not all) far eastern Buddhist forms of "Pureland" buddhism, involving the "other power" of Amitabha, may have something very close to this. Or, the power of the guru in awakening the student in tantra. This really isn't Theravada territory.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Goofaholix
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:31 am


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yuttadhammo
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Re: Pali term or concept related to Grace?

Postby yuttadhammo » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:14 pm





Upasampadā: 4 December, 2001


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