More Trungpa talk

DGA
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More Trungpa talk

Postby DGA » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:17 pm

I've been reading and re-reading Chogyam Trungpa's books as part of a research project. I'd read them anyway, though, because they're just so good: incisive, hilarious, probing.

I'm interested also in the way Trungpa is received in recent years: it's easy to find those books very inexpensively used online, so I'm not so sure he's a bestseller anymore in the way HHDL is now, but at the same time he's become a canonical figure of authority that everyone with a line in the spiritual fishingpond wants to take him down. Example: the Ken Wilber people quoting a Zen teacher's comments on Trungpa:

http://integrallife.com/member/kmartins ... lain-crazy

Frankly, if you read The Myth of Freedom, you can find Trungpa anticipating Wilber's project and pulling the plug on it some years before Up From Eden. My point is that there's some incentive for sellers of contemporary spiritual commodities to marginalize Trungpa's critique of their ground. That's how I understand the above column. Even the comment that Trungpa was at least as enlightened as a certain swami (by what standards would such a claim make sense?).

I'd like to know what others think of this aspect of Trungpa's legacy. If no one's reading him, why is it necessary to bury him rhetorically or position him on the margin?

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Jinzang » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 pm

Trungpa Rinpoche was integral to establishing Tibetan Buddhism in North America and founded the largest Tibetan Buddhist organization here. He wrote books that still sell well. His behavior was "colorful," to put it diplomatically. Of course people are going to talk about him and what he meant.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!"

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AdmiralJim
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby AdmiralJim » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:25 pm

To be honest I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to say that he is merely being critisized in an attempt to marginalise his teachings, so that those very same writers can big up their own ideas? When it comes to trungpa and his books I find them very useful but at the same time I can't really condone how he behaved as a teacher.
It just reminds me of how people don't really take the advice they are willing to give out and this is just a common way that we as humans behave. It very much reminds me of Sangharakshita's (FWBO) comments about men being willing to open up to intimate friendships with other men, yet he is not willing to face up to his own homosexuality. Similiarly when it comes to Trungpa he talks a lot about materialism yet his students are often unwilling to admit the excesses he was guilty of himself like alcohol and attending very middle upper class parties in his early years - which is the background where he drew a lot of his personal students from.
I am not saying we should dismiss Trungpa but we should be able to ackowledge what really went on and how an admission of this doesn't in anyway relegate him to the sidelines but merely shows him as human and as a human he struggled very greatly against what are all trying to escape through our practice and this should act as a catalyst for our quest.
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby justsit » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:26 pm

If a Rinpoche sits in front of a group of students and gives pointing out instructions, some people will "get it" and some won't.
Doesn't matter what method s/he uses, some will, some won't. Those who don't may get it later, or from someone else.

CTR's whole life, warts and all, was pointing out. Some get it, some don't. It's OK.

Just my opinion, of course.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:58 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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AdmiralJim
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby AdmiralJim » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:24 pm

I did read his books, I think this is more to do with my opinion of what he was like as a person rather than what he taught.........if you disagree with that then fair enough.......and all forms of materialism are related.
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby DGA » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:38 pm


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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:33 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby tobes » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:19 am

I'm not really au fait with the fishpond of modern spirituality texts - so I have no idea to the extent that they might or might not be in some kind of dialectic with Trungpa.

But I do agree with your sense that Myth of Freedom has something important to say - a savage critique I suppose - of some of those movements.

It's really a great book; I often struggle to recommend Buddhist writing to non-Buddhists who express an interest, and Myth of Freedom is probably my regular go to text.

:anjali:

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Lingpupa » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:52 am

All the best
Alex Wilding
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Benchen and Back digital edition still on Amazon - see

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Aemilius » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:00 pm

Long ago in meditation I saw the 16. Gyalwa Karmapa with a body of golden colour. Then his golden body changed into Ken Wilber, and Ken Wilber with the same size and colour as Karmapa flowed out from Gyalwa Karmapa, and began to do the work of 16. Karmapa.

And yet I have to admit I have read very little of Ken Wilber's books or his articles. I know there are people who value him very much.
svaha

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Grigoris
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Grigoris » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:51 pm

Lot's of people valued Shoko Asahara (and still do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_(Buddhist_group) ) so that doesn't say much for peoples value systems nor does it say much about the object of value.
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby mint » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:36 pm


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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Stewart » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:59 pm

s.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby AdmiralJim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:27 pm

I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:02 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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AdmiralJim
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby AdmiralJim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:16 pm

I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:05 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby daelm » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:53 am


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Aemilius
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Aemilius » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:00 am

svaha


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