Saṃtānābhinnārtha

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Saṃtānābhinnārtha

Postby joda » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:27 am

Hi,

while looking for something in the Mahayanasamgraha I stumbled over this term which I could not make anything out of.

Translation LaMotte / Migme Chodron:

Ch. 5, pg 272 wrote:v) In the fifith bhūmi, as reality with no difference in series (saṃtānābhinnārtha).


The Bashya reads a bit further:

(v) Saṃtānābhinnārtha: in this dharmadhātu of the fifth bhūmi there is no difference in nature; it is like the eye, etc., which, in the various series of beings (sattvasaṃtānaviśeṣa) separately, shows no differences. The person who knows this enters into the fifth bhūmi.


Would be nice if someone could point out what is meant by this.
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Re: Saṃtānābhinnārtha

Postby Huifeng » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:06 pm

joda wrote:Hi,

while looking for something in the Mahayanasamgraha I stumbled over this term which I could not make anything out of.

Translation LaMotte / Migme Chodron:

Ch. 5, pg 272 wrote:v) In the fifith bhūmi, as reality with no difference in series (saṃtānābhinnārtha).


The Bashya reads a bit further:

(v) Saṃtānābhinnārtha: in this dharmadhātu of the fifth bhūmi there is no difference in nature; it is like the eye, etc., which, in the various series of beings (sattvasaṃtānaviśeṣa) separately, shows no differences. The person who knows this enters into the fifth bhūmi.


Would be nice if someone could point out what is meant by this.


Hello Joda! :smile:
Long time, no see!

I went to check out the Chinese, and see what the various versions have to say about it.
Xuanzang's translation has:


《攝大乘論釋》卷7:
「相續無差別義者。謂於此中體無有異。非如眼等隨諸有情。相續差別各各有異。若如是知得入五地。」
(CBETA, T31, no. 1597, p. 358, b8-10)

Note that Xuanzang has "it is NOT like the eye...".

Yinshun (『攝大乘論講記』 pg. 392) explains this term as:
(5) 「五地中」所得的「相續無差別」法界相,從遠離『於下乘般涅槃無明』所 顯。聲聞緣覺厭離生死急求涅槃,不知生死即是涅槃。菩薩在五地中開始能 真俗並觀,通達法界的生死涅槃都無差別性,所以就遠離了下乘的般涅槃障 ,證得相續無差別的法界。

The "non-distinction of continuum" dharma-dhatu nature which is attained at the fifth ground, is revealed from being dissociated "from lower vehicle parinirvana ignorance". The sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, having disgust for samsara, quickly seek nirvana, but do not know that samsara is itself nirvana. The bodhisattvas, on the fifth ground, begin to be able to contemplate both the ultimate and conventional [truths], having penetrative insight into the non-distinction between samsara and nirvana. Therefore they are dissociated from the parinirvana obstruction of the lower vehicles, and and realize the non-distinction continuum of the dharma-dhatu. Trs. Huifeng.

Any help?

~~ Huifeng
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Re: Saṃtānābhinnārtha

Postby joda » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:48 am

Hello :hi: nice to see you. I hope you are well and were successful in your studys :)

Hmm Yin Shuns commentary apparently walks into the opposite direction of what I expected.
In his view continuum here means the continuum of the aspirant?
When I read the text first - this was also why I found it interesting enough to ask about it - I thought it implies some sort of equality in the continuums of all beings that the aspirant realizes.
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Re: Saṃtānābhinnārtha

Postby White Lotus » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:17 pm

to me this means that there is a ''samata'' or sameness of all things seen. the experience of seeing the computer screen presents the same sensation as looking at the table on which the computer rests or as the hands typing at the computer. there is a continuum of all things seen. a non-differentiation. very simple, but takes a while to see this. i saw non differentiation of objects a while before i saw non differentiation of observer and observed (objects).

later one sees that there is nothing to differentiate, no self, no objects seen... this is seeing emptiness. one is able to look within and see that there is no within, to look without and see that there is no without.

its all a matter of becoming familiar with ordinary perception. analysing what one sees and feels and how one sees and feels. (i call this meditation with your eyes open!) there is an evolution of perception. what one is able to see on any level, or bhumi develops as one reaches higher bhumis and so there is an increasing understanding of awareness, and a larger range of what can be seen/experienced.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Saṃtānābhinnārtha

Postby Quiet Heart » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:38 am

:smile:
White Lotus wrote:to me this means that there is a ''samata'' or sameness of all things seen. the experience of seeing the computer screen presents the same sensation as looking at the table on which the computer rests or as the hands typing at the computer. there is a continuum of all things seen. a non-differentiation. very simple, but takes a while to see this. i saw non differentiation of objects a while before i saw non differentiation of observer and observed (objects).

later one sees that there is nothing to differentiate, no self, no objects seen... this is seeing emptiness. one is able to look within and see that there is no within, to look without and see that there is no without.

its all a matter of becoming familiar with ordinary perception. analysing what one sees and feels and how one sees and feels. (i call this meditation with your eyes open!) there is an evolution of perception. what one is able to see on any level, or bhumi develops as one reaches higher bhumis and so there is an increasing understanding of awareness, and a larger range of what can be seen/experienced.

best wishes, Tom.

-------------------------------------------------
later one sees that there is nothing to differentiate, no self, no objects seen... this is seeing emptiness. one is able to look within and see that there is no within, to look without and see that there is no without.


Because "within" and "without" are merely two self-generated illusions of one continium?

its all a matter of becoming familiar with ordinary perception. analysing what one sees and feels and how one sees and feels. (i call this meditation with your eyes open!) there is an evolution of perception. what one is able to see on any level, or bhumi develops as one reaches higher bhumis and so there is an increasing understanding of awareness, and a larger range of what can be seen/experienced.


Yes, and that's interesting and "fun".
But I've recently had to consider whether that "fun" has any real meaning...I'm still considering that point, in fact.
And still, the question is as always, "What's next" ?
I'm not sure I know, or ever will know (I'm not young).
Anyway, however it ends, the journey is a damn fine ride.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach
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