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 Post subject: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Is there a sutra discussing the Pratimoksha Vows like the Bhrama Net Sutra discusses the Bodhisattva Vows?


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 Post subject: Re: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:53 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Is there a sutra discussing the Pratimoksha Vows like the Bhrama Net Sutra discusses the Bodhisattva Vows?


There are many sutras that depict the stories about the Pratimoksha vows evolving. There is also Jamgon Kongtrul's "Ethics" discussing the various vows in detail. That would surely direct you to various other sources.

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 Post subject: Re: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:14 am 
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sangyey wrote:
Is there a sutra discussing the Pratimoksha Vows like the Bhrama Net Sutra discusses the Bodhisattva Vows?


Just a clarification on terminology, first: While we often make a distinction between sutra and vinaya, actually, the core part of the vinaya, ie. the pratimoksa, was originally called sutra, too.

But really, it is what we usually call the vinaya, which is the vibhanga, ie. exegesis, to the pratimoksa, that explains them. So, just read the basic vinaya texts, which go through all the precepts analyzing them in various ways.

I've just started going through Bhante Thanissaro's The Buddhist Monastic Code yesterday. It's available online in PDF, just google it up. (Though I'm using the printed version.) That's the Pali, as English versions from other vinayas are rather sparse on the ground.

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:24 am 
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Thank you for the clarification Ven. Huifeng. I think I see what you are saying as (if this is correct) the general formula for the textual division in relation to the 3 trainings is vinaya, sutra, and abhidharma. How does this work out with the Bodhisatta Vows then? Are they too in the classification of vinaya?


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 Post subject: Re: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:10 am 
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sangyey wrote:
Thank you for the clarification Ven. Huifeng. I think I see what you are saying as (if this is correct) the general formula for the textual division in relation to the 3 trainings is vinaya, sutra, and abhidharma. How does this work out with the Bodhisatta Vows then? Are they too in the classification of vinaya?


Hi,

The "traditional" division into sutra, vinaya (and maybe abhidharma) is actually a little bit later. Originally, the core of the vinaya is also sutra. Though I really disagree that the three relate to the three trainings, because equating sutra with samadhi and then abhidharma with prajna is just flat incorrect in my opinion. Thus the core (or sutra element) of the vinaya was originally the pratimoksa, and then the broad vinaya itself covers all it's details (but is still definitely not abhidharma at all).

As for the bodhisattva vows, it doesn't really work like this, because it's already somewhat beyond the three pitakas type division. For those schools that had bodhisattva works, some put them into sutra-pitaka, but others had separate actual pitakas for them, the bodhisattva-pitaka, etc. (like the Dharmagupta). Whereas in China they later put this into the vinaya, but made a basic vinaya distinction of sravaka vinaya and bodhisattva vinaya. Don't know how the Tibetans did / do it, though. Or whether the Indians had such a distinction or not (probably did, but I'm not that clued up on it).

~~ Huifeng

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 Post subject: Re: Pratimoksha Vows
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:11 am 
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Not sure how accurate these old translations of two sections of the Vinaya are - but they are in English:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cat/srchsub ... str=vinaya

Maybe this work by a Bhikkhu will be simpler & better:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/bhkkrule.pdf

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